First TCD e34 M30 Turbo Kit Delivered today.

[JPS]

thanks jps, i just sent you a PM but that was b4 i read this response....
running around MA mean massachooo right?
i'm in jersey... =]

Correct, Massachusetts. TCD is in CT.

[George M]

John...it is you who came to this board to tout your product...not about me. In your words above..."Questioning is fine and encouraged"...couldn't be farther from the truth. Irony is...I think it is great you are turning your hobby and passion into a small business venture resulting in others sharing in the joy of driving a boosted BMW. Will let others judge your approach however as to how you represent yourself and leave it there.

[JPS]

John...it is you who came to this board to tout your product...not about me. In your words above..."Questioning is fine and encouraged"...couldn't be farther from the truth. Irony is...I think it is great you are turning your hobby and passion into a small business venture resulting in others sharing in the joy of driving a boosted BMW. Will let others judge your approach however as to how you represent yourself and leave it there.

George, No, I came to his board to support the fact that it is perfectly fine to run without a knock sensor, we've proven it. Your attack on our product, without knowing anything about it, resulted in my response to you (with the name calling)... childish, yes, but you must admit it was coming down to the level you established.... I'm not proud. (laugh with me)
Understand this, we've done our homework, we run our own cars this way (beyond what we advise customers to do), we've consulted with engineers and people who do this stuff for a living. We are, in fact, mildly intelligent and capable also. I assume the same of you. As for representing myself, I do as I do in all aspects of my life. If I am or my work is unduely attacked I will respond. If I am shown to be wrong, I fully accept that. I am also completely open to others ideas, but I, as you have, may question them and want some sort of backing. That backing was given in that we stated what we have acheved. It's the info we have, it's now the info everyone else has. You either trust us or you don't. Word of mouth will better focus peoples thoughts. We've had a lot of people in our turbo cars and gotten plenty of acolades. Our first run of 10 systems is already spoken for so they'll soon be in the public eye to be judged.
Let's keep it civil,
Regards.

[AllanS]

Information on knock sensors... I read all of the above posts, and was a little bewildered as to why a knock sensor was a big deal. Competant engine management is, in my opinion, a better solution to the problem of detonation, but while I was on the topic, I decided to research some other turbo kits, from BMWs.

Here's the gist of it: no turbo kits for BMW on the market today include knock sensors. From the "inexpensive" Mossellman to the $11k AA kits, there are no knock sensors.

Of course, you're thinking, "Idiot! these are all for m50/s50/m52/s52 engines which have knock sensors already included!"

That's correct. But all these stock knock sensor can do, is retard timing. It can't open the wastegate, or up the fuel pressure to counteract the (apparent) lean condition.

Now, of course, there are aftermarket knock sensors (like the J&S Safeguard), which can most certainly retard boost when detonation is detected. At 500$ retail (not including the sensor itself; this is just for the box), they're rather pricy, for an item that no other turbo shops provide, regardless of the price.

That said, I disagree with George (I think! I'm not sure if that was his main point, the lack of a knock sensor, or the engine management), in that I see nothing wrong with a kit without a knock sensor.

I do agree with him, in that any turn key kit must have competent engine management. I'm not saying that the TCD doesn't have it though- I haven't seen the kit (although Todd had invited me to come over and test it out back in January- he's apparently a few hours away from me in CT).

What defines competent remains in the eye of the customer I think- Personally, I wouldn't mind a stock engine management system with a rising rate regulator there to provide extra fuel under boost, along with larger injectors, but I'm not the kind of person who buys a kit either

Oh, and I have no afiliation with TCD or anyone else, I'm just stating my stand on the thing.

[George M]

aside from the riduculous banter....we will simply agree to disagree. As with the low boosted factory turbo M-30's that run less compression than stock NA M-30's...I would never run a boosted M-30 without a knock sensor..."independent of how much boost" I were running. You guys go ahead if you want. Now I have to run along to dinner

[Bill in MA]

Being the owner of the current turbo'ed E34 in MA, all I can say is that the proof is in the driving. Just came back from a 400 mile round trip to NY and back, 4 people and tons of stuff in the car, AC on the whole time, and the car didn't miss a beat even in 90+ degree weather. I also commute 600 miles a week in this car. Tons of power, even in top gear steep inclines are no problem. And I can honestly say all with no detonation, no blown head gasket, no holes in the oil pan...no locusts, no black plague, no meteors, or other woes that people on the web seem to contemplate when adding a turbo to a NA car. I heard the same doom and gloom when I (with a lot of help from JPS) turbo charged my 87 Audi 4000 quattro - NA motor with 8.5:1 compression and no knock sensor. "You'll melt the pistons within the first week" they said or you'll "blow the head gasket". Car has over 300,000 miles on it and the only thing wrong is the alternator is failing...Before that we were messing with SAAB SPGs..

It's fine to wail and gnash your teeth all you want about the theoretical problems here, but John and Todd do all their "beta testing" in the real world, with quite remarkable results.

Event without benefit of a pistol grip shifter....

Bill
92 535i TURBO

[winfred]

i'll only say **** happens when it happens, i've seen detonation mulch cast pistons in stock na motors in bmw volvo and mercedes, kinda like no2, it's not if something fails and it runs lean, it's when and all the sudden the oilpan has holes in it or you blow the valves out the tailpipe. didn't pat p run well over 20psi on a couple hundred thousand mile stock long block? as long as it gets all the fuel oil and water it wants it'll tolerate much abuse, it's when the wife fills up with piss water or you get a bad tank of gas and a sensor goes **** up in the wrong way that a safety net no mater how small can be a life saver. do not take this as any kind of attack or bad press, it seems that this has gotten personal on both sides of the argument, both sides have good points

[Kamil]

WOW!!
What a great thread, I can't believe I haven't seen it till just now.

First thing I've realized while reading this (I'm 27YO, w/ BSEE & EIT soon, FWIW) is that some of us never grow from the maturity level of a 10YO no matter how old, how much education, etc. Interesting life ahead of me.

My $0.02 w/ regards to TCD/JPS/turbos/knowcksensors, etc.

Knock sensor - as useful as a radar detector. If you're an idiot, you're an idiot no matter what precautions are taken. I've seen a number of cars w/ J$S [sic] Safeguard and/or stand-alone controllers (supposedly well tuned) with a nice hole on the side of the block. Obviously I'm talking about factory NA cars that were turbocharged and probably tuned to less then conservative level.
Side note - If you need to know what they were... they were Hondas. Go ahead; say something and I'll tell you that you're the stereotypical BMW spoiled snot w/ a closed mind. 300WHP from a 1.8L DOHC motor whose pistons move faster then that of some F1 motors is nothing to sneeze at.

JPS - (and I don't mean to brown-nose you here, John) I sold my rims to the guy. No joke, we have spent three hours on the side of the road talking about everything from cars to life, including turbos of course. He is a great guy, very intelligent and social. Spend some time talking to him and you'll realize that this guy is not some shmock who in a drunken state decided it would be cool to turbo a car (I really hope I'm wrong about that, you being Irish n' all.. and in western mass).

JPS and TCD's marketing stills seemed excellent to me. How's so? Before I've even met JPS I have exchanged a few emails w/ TCD. He has always answered all my questions and in a very timely manner, might I add.
Their posting here should be seriously be considered less of an advertisement and more of a friendly post giving you an option. Questions/concerns should be directed straight to TCD and not posted in a derogatory matter starting a [childish] flame war on a public domain. Again, something that someone in a profession that requires high moral values should know.

Few things about TCD's turbo kit design. Their target customer is a guy who's driving a car that is at least ten years old, probably in his 40s, college educated, w/ budget managed/influenced by a significant other that is likely not to be aware of her (his? not that there's anything wrong w/ that) partner's "illness" of all things that are automotive. Realizing that, they have attempted to design a product that will appeal in both; the performance as well as budget aspects.
Yes, their kit could be more efficient, yes there could be a huge front mount intercooler w/ water sprayer, water injection, a ball-bearing turbo, an equal length tubular manifold and YES, a gowddamed knock sensor too.... but how many of those would they sell costing three times more?

-Kamil K.

[JPS]

i'll only say **** happens when it happens, i've seen detonation mulch cast pistons in stock na motors in bmw volvo and mercedes, kinda like no2, it's not if something fails and it runs lean, it's when and all the sudden the oilpan has holes in it or you blow the valves out the tailpipe. didn't pat p run well over 20psi on a couple hundred thousand mile stock long block? as long as it gets all the fuel oil and water it wants it'll tolerate much abuse, it's when the wife fills up with piss water or you get a bad tank of gas and a sensor goes **** up in the wrong way that a safety net no mater how small can be a life saver. do not take this as any kind of attack or bad press, it seems that this has gotten personal on both sides of the argument, both sides have good points

The thing is, Winfred, that if a sensor goes bad or you get a bad batch of fuel, etc. at the first sign of detonation you remove load from the engine.
A friend of ours who built his own system did plenty of failure testing for us(whether he knew it or not) in that he (knowingly) pushed his E28 535 hard, with sustained detonation, over and over. Finally a ring land cracked and he had the incentive to install the newer engine he really wanted in the car. I have had my engine detonate many times for seconds at a time while going through the process of tuning. This was with a Saab APC system installed. As I stated before, these knock control systems need to be tuned to the specific engine. You need to put some real effort into damaging an M30 with detonation. Yes, things can happen. You can easily burn valves on an NA engine if you run it too lean. You can break pistons in a turbo engine with sustained detonation. You drive into a bridge abuttment if your steering fails. Your perfectly tuned/maintained, garage kept E34 turbo can get hit by a meteor. Sometimes life just hands it to you.
The kit does what it was designed to do very well. Can more stuff be added to enhance it? Sure. It is up to the customer to decide how far to push things.

[JPS]

WOW!!
What a great thread, I can't believe I haven't seen it till just now.

First thing I've realized while reading this (I'm 27YO, w/ BSEE & EIT soon, FWIW) is that some of us never grow from the maturity level of a 10YO no matter how old, how much education, etc. Interesting life ahead of me.

My $0.02 w/ regards to TCD/JPS/turbos/knowcksensors, etc.

Knock sensor - as useful as a radar detector. If you're an idiot, you're an idiot no matter what precautions are taken. I've seen a number of cars w/ J$S [sic] Safeguard and/or stand-alone controllers (supposedly well tuned) with a nice hole on the side of the block. Obviously I'm talking about factory NA cars that were turbocharged and probably tuned to less then conservative level.
Side note - If you need to know what they were... they were Hondas. Go ahead; say something and I'll tell you that you're the stereotypical BMW spoiled snot w/ a closed mind. 300WHP from a 1.8L DOHC motor whose pistons move faster then that of some F1 motors is nothing to sneeze at.

JPS - (and I don't mean to brown-nose you here, John) I sold my rims to the guy. No joke, we have spent three hours on the side of the road talking about everything from cars to life, including turbos of course. He is a great guy, very intelligent and social. Spend some time talking to him and you'll realize that this guy is not some shmock who in a drunken state decided it would be cool to turbo a car (I really hope I'm wrong about that, you being Irish n' all.. and in western mass).

JPS and TCD's marketing stills seemed excellent to me. How's so? Before I've even met JPS I have exchanged a few emails w/ TCD. He has always answered all my questions and in a very timely manner, might I add.
Their posting here should be seriously be considered less of an advertisement and more of a friendly post giving you an option. Questions/concerns should be directed straight to TCD and not posted in a derogatory matter starting a [childish] flame war on a public domain. Again, something that someone in a profession that requires high moral values should know.

Few things about TCD's turbo kit design. Their target customer is a guy who's driving a car that is at least ten years old, probably in his 40s, college educated, w/ budget managed/influenced by a significant other that is likely not to be aware of her (his? not that there's anything wrong w/ that) partner's "illness" of all things that are automotive. Realizing that, they have attempted to design a product that will appeal in both; the performance as well as budget aspects.
Yes, their kit could be more efficient, yes there could be a huge front mount intercooler w/ water sprayer, water injection, a ball-bearing turbo, an equal length tubular manifold and YES, a gowddamed knock sensor too.... but how many of those would they sell costing three times more?

-Kamil K.

Hey! I want a refund on those wheels/tires!!! The rear ones are broken, they keep spinning violently as I try to drive away.