First TCD e34 M30 Turbo Kit Delivered today.

[George M]

agree Winfred...lots of ways to get it done on a budget....might be one of the best.
Some pretty creative turbo set ups out there.

[TCD]

Its an open forum Todd....so you listen up backyard turbo boy. If you care to advertise or represent your system on this board then stand ready to answer questions put forth.
If you don't, its a admission you haven't done your homework. As a degreed engineer with a background in engine design...I do question your system as any thinking man would do who is considering plunking down more than 1 large for a turbo...particularly from an unknown entity like yourself for a self purported "modest boost" system that won't yield the horsepower gain a well boosted system will with a a decent engine management that will control boost and air/fuel to maintain reasonable cylinder temps and therefore head gasket and bottom end engine durability. How many hours have you run on a dyno at the boost pressures you propose to ensure to the M-30 community your turbo set up won't blow up a NA M-30 in short order? Your system going to run a boost shut off? Or are you planning to do your beta testing and use first time customers as guinea pigs? If you haven't done any dyno durability testing, what beta testing sample size have you performed to encompass the variablility of not only your system but the aging M-30's out there that would consider your turbo? Why don't you post a print out of your dyno run...lets see the horsepower values against baseline. You may be able to sell your slipshot turbo set up to the uninitiated but what started as a friendly discussion will quickly erode without a measure of civility on your part. Reread my posts above...gaging your response...I am certain your marketing skills are commensurate with your technical ability and the underlying reason you are indignant relative to questions or comments about your smoke and and mirrors system is you haven't done your home work.

Sorry George,

I am stepping out for the weekend and don't have time to write a paper for you now. In the meantime take a look at our website. We have about 50k on the m30 motor with boost pressure exceeding 15psi. We currently have 4 test cars with TCD systems installed. Our e34 535i made an additonal 105rwhp on 9.5psi non intercooled. My personal car has about 40 dyno pulls and 30 dragstrip runs and gets hammered every single time I drive it.

We can talk more when I return on Monday.

Todd
http://www.turbochargingdynamics.com
1985 535i 20psi 16k turbocharged
1986 635 18psi 30k turbocharged
1989 325i 14psi 6k turbocharged
1992 535i 9psi 5k turbocharged

[Phil M]

Its an open forum Todd....so you listen up backyard turbo boy. If you care to advertise or represent your system on this board then stand ready to answer questions put forth.
If you don't, its a admission you haven't done your homework. As a degreed engineer with a background in engine design...I do question your system as any thinking man would do who is considering plunking down more than 1 large for a turbo...particularly from an unknown entity like yourself for a self purported "modest boost" system that won't yield the horsepower gain a well boosted system will with a a decent engine management that will control boost and air/fuel to maintain reasonable cylinder temps and therefore head gasket and bottom end engine durability. How many hours have you run on a dyno at the boost pressures you propose to ensure to the M-30 community your turbo set up won't blow up a NA M-30 in short order? Your system going to run a boost shut off? Or are you planning to do your beta testing and use first time customers as guinea pigs? If you haven't done any dyno durability testing, what beta testing sample size have you performed to encompass the variablility of not only your system but the aging M-30's out there that would consider your turbo? Why don't you post a print out of your dyno run...lets see the horsepower values against baseline. You may be able to sell your slipshot turbo set up to the uninitiated but what started as a friendly discussion will quickly erode without a measure of civility on your part. Reread my posts above...gaging your response...I am certain your marketing skills are commensurate with your technical ability and the underlying reason you are indignant relative to questions or comments about your smoke and and mirrors system is you haven't done your home work.

so hes proposing a system with low boost (which really doesnt amt to much performance gain) so he dont have to use a knock sens? rather than have a higher boost w/ sufficient engine management? hmm so basically this guy is paying $1k+ for ****? i guess we'll just have to see how it all turns out later..

ps. george.. your post reminded me of nathaniel hawthorne & how i had to read his passages 2-3x to fully understand em lol. that type of manipulation of language, unbeknownst these days, is a great thing to possess.

*cleans brown off nose*

[Craig]

My biggest battle is convincing people that we know what we are doing. To each his own. No problem.

Haha, this seems to happen quite a bit. Todd, you should make up a standard disclaimer that you post each time you mention your turbo kit, kind of like Shawn D's "E28 air vent diagram" that he uses.

George-

Todd's done a shitload of turbos on M30 motors- I doubt there is anyone around anywhere with more firsthand M30 turbo experience than him.

To everyone else- go to mye28.com and ask about Todd. Do a search there for his posts and you'll see he's not making a "slipshod" product here. Todd's kits are at least as good as any other- and the Kormann kit makes the same boost levels but I don't see people here running about calling it "****." Even though for some unknown reason I'm building my own turbo kit, if I were shopping I'd buy Todd's without hesitation.

[George M]

Hi Phil...the point is no need for complicated language...lol...its just about cars :-)
You can get pretty decent horsepower gain even with modest boost on these engines...the point of TCD's system...without spending an arm and a leg.
And there clearly is an economic balance between slipping under the threshold of durability and doing it on the cheap with no or little engine management changes, intercooler, stock compression, no knock sensor etc...but a slippery slope none the less in terms of putting a system out there which will work for the variety of M-30's out there.
Since there are a couple of turbo benchmarks for the M-30 from the factory....pretty easy to see all that goes into a strong and durable turbo motor...quite different than a NA M-30 with a few add on pieces.

As with performance chips, lack of beta testing will expose an underdeveloped system..particularly with regard to detonation when boosting an engine not designed to be....along the lines of TCD's who is trying to make his system economically attractive by not having a complement of engine management controls. No free lunch.... everybody wants boost...but it ain't cheap to do it right. TCD completely missed the point about detonation...it isn't about detection and being a responsible owner...it is about experiencing detonation with one of his systems that you can hear...and because of lack of adequate engine management, not being able to do anything about it even when running the best gas you can find. Same as running too aggressive a performance chip based upon statistically the state of "your M-30" if not accounted for during development.

And TCD...no need for an apology..but a further hint to hone your marketing talent or lack thereof....never follow an apology with a pejorative phrase like "no time to write a paper" whether you are qualified or not...lol.

[JPS]

No, it's a system designed to operate within the bounds of the stock engine management system, tuned to a point where knock control is not required to maintain a reasonable safety level. Would knock control be advantageous? yes. This would allow for optimized tuning. Ideally, a fully programable engine management system would be utilized but it would add several thousand more dollars to the system. There is over 50K miles of testing on these systems at boost levels significantly higher than what the recomended levels are with no failures. These miles are also on well worn engines.
No significant power increase at low boost levels, you say. How is 255whp at 7psi on an M30b34, 283whp at 8-9psi on an M30B35? I am currently running 18psi on a 150K mile engine that has over 30K miles under boost and I drive it over 400 miles/week.

[Jeff N.]

hmmmm.....should be interesting

[JPS]

Its an open forum Todd....so you listen up backyard turbo boy. If you care to advertise or represent your system on this board then stand ready to answer questions put forth.
If you don't, its a admission you haven't done your homework. As a degreed engineer with a background in engine design...I do question your system as any thinking man would do who is considering plunking down more than 1 large for a turbo...particularly from an unknown entity like yourself for a self purported "modest boost" system that won't yield the horsepower gain a well boosted system will with a a decent engine management that will control boost and air/fuel to maintain reasonable cylinder temps and therefore head gasket and bottom end engine durability. How many hours have you run on a dyno at the boost pressures you propose to ensure to the M-30 community your turbo set up won't blow up a NA M-30 in short order? Your system going to run a boost shut off? Or are you planning to do your beta testing and use first time customers as guinea pigs? If you haven't done any dyno durability testing, what beta testing sample size have you performed to encompass the variablility of not only your system but the aging M-30's out there that would consider your turbo? Why don't you post a print out of your dyno run...lets see the horsepower values against baseline. You may be able to sell your slipshot turbo set up to the uninitiated but what started as a friendly discussion will quickly erode without a measure of civility on your part. Reread my posts above...gaging your response...I am certain your marketing skills are commensurate with your technical ability and the underlying reason you are indignant relative to questions or comments about your smoke and and mirrors system is you haven't done your home work.

"Backyard turbo boy", "Slipshot turbo setup", "Smoke and mirror system"...
George, for someone who wants to appear intelligent you certainly present yourself as condesending, ass with a big chip on your shoulder... a cow chip, though you may refer to it as your head. You presented yourself as an adversary, you will be treated as one.
George, these systems are based on successful kits produced in the eighties by Korman/Cartech (when owned by Corky Bell). Bell was and is still consulted in regards to these systems which have been reconfigured and utilize modern turbochargers that operate at higher efficiencies than the originals. It was proven that the system, as designed and tuned within that design criteria, was reliable without the addition of knock control.
With knock control the system can be better optimized but it would also add greatly to the cost, something the market will not support in general. So, these systems, as delivered, get tuned within a safty margin to prevent detonation. It is up to the owner to maintain that level of safety. If they choose to increase the boost they are advised to adjust tuning or upgrade the tunability (knock control, fuel delivery, timing)of the engine management.
TCD can deliver a comprehensive kit that delivers reliable power at a reasonable cost. TCD cannot control what people do after that.
Now, you say you're an engineer and work in engine design. If you have constructive advice that is useful and you wish to share, great. If you choose to chastise a system you know nothing about...
Let's play nice.

[JPS]

agree Winfred...lots of ways to get it done on a budget....might be one of the best.
Some pretty creative turbo set ups out there.

The Saab APC is a nice system but, a word of caution. When installing the APC on another engine, the knock sensativity must be tuned for that engine.

[632 Regal]

wow