DEAD! - No CEL, will not fire - need serious help, Please

[zuzuk212]

main relay could be bad.

From one of Winfreds post regarding the CPS:

"theres 3 tests for a cps, pulse, ohm's and current, they can pass 2 out of 3 and be bad, i can't remember exactly what that one reads as resistance 540 or 900 something, pulse is not that important and takes a scope to read, current, should make at least 1 volt AC at cranking speed, generally if the main relay is working the idle control valve will buzz slightly to the touch with the key on"

I doubt that it is the crank since the one I pulled out ohmed OK and the Hella I just put in ohmed OK and didn't solve it.
The cam sensor on the other hand does not look good. Did not ohm at all. So, I'll let you know what happens after replacing that.

With the dash ... when running the dash test, should the tach and speedo needles go the full travel and peg at maximum? I can't remember, the last time I did it was years ago. The other night they only go to 12 o'clock ... I hope my cluster isn't also screwed.

Thanks for the input,
Ken

[Dave M]

I doubt that it is the crank since the one I pulled out ohmed OK and the Hella I just put in ohmed OK and didn't solve it.
The cam sensor on the other hand does not look good. Did not ohm at all. So, I'll let you know what happens after replacing that.

With the dash ... when running the dash test, should the tach and speedo needles go the full travel and peg at maximum? I can't remember, the last time I did it was years ago. The other night they only go to 12 o'clock ... I hope my cluster isn't also screwed.

Thanks for the input,
Ken

Sounds like you've got a very likely culprit in the cam sensor. If these go, you've got no chance of starting (ask how I know ).
I've also has a Crank Position Sensor with a wire that you could spin around, but it worked fine. Not sure what makes em do that, but their pretty sturdy.

Good luck with it,

Dave

[tim eh?]

Besides the crank and cam sensors, what else would stop the spark? ... other than the coils.

bad distributor or rotor would cause no spark and your other symptoms except for the check engine light.

***...see below... sorry about that.

M50 is coil on plug, so eliminates the distributor/cap/rotor.

[Dave M]

bad distributor or rotor would cause no spark and your other symptoms except for the check engine light.

M50 is coil on plug, so eliminates the distributor/cap/rotor.

Dave

[zuzuk212]

Thanks! I'll let you know what I find ... I should have the part tomorrow ... at least I better!

If you have any ideas about the CEL ... please bounce them off me ... I hope it comes back, but doubt it.

Thanks again and I'll let you know what happens!
Ken

Oh yeah, Dave ... how do you know? =)
So far it's been a pain for me twice =P

[Dave M]

Thanks! I'll let you know what I find ... I should have the part tomorrow ... at least I better!

If you have any ideas about the CEL ... please bounce them off me ... I hope it comes back, but doubt it.

Thanks again and I'll let you know what happens!
Ken

Oh yeah, Dave ... how do you know? =)
So far it's been a pain for me twice =P

First time , I installed the metal tag (thing that triggers the sensor) on the intake cam upside down. As I just rebuilt the engine, there were myriad things that could have been FUBAR'd. It took a while to figure that one out.

Second time, I had done a job on the ICV or something and removed the wire harness from the sensor. Again, did an insomplete re-assembly and was left scratching my head when it wouldn't start. Mind you, with previous experience, it took far les time to troubleshoot.

There, I feel beter having admitted my dumb-ass-ed-ness

Dave

[zuzuk212]

I do plenty of dumbass stuff too ... I'm not feeling better though ... would if the car was working. =(

OH CRAP!
I replaced the cam sensor ... no spark!!! NOW WHAT?!
The only thing I can think of would be the ECM? What do you think?
If I take the ECM to the dealer ... would they be able to test it out of the car?

Oh, this sucks ... please let me know what you think the next plan of attack should be.
Thanks!

Ken

[zuzuk212]

OK ... I concur it is the ECM relay! I tried checking the diodes ... the one seemed OK, as far as passing in only one direction ... the other one, pain in the ass to get to and not possible to separate from the rest of the circuit ... so, with the cap still off, plugged it in and watched as the key was turned ... nadda! Tried again and pushed the contact closed ... FIRE!! So, hopefully I'll be picking up a relay tomorrow and will let you know if it still works.

A BIG THANKS to all and really appreciate the offer of the ECM ... hopefully I still won't need it.

Still would like to know if anybody has tried the dash test with the ECM disconnected ... please, let me know.

Thanks again and I'll update tomorrow ... I can't wait to have it back!!
Ken


I think I spoke too soon ... I measured for voltage at the relay plug and got nothing, so that would be why the solenoid would not react ... and from the Bentley wiring diagram it looks like that is supplied by the ECM? Are there any fuses dealing with the relay?

Let me know ... thanks,
Ken

[zuzuk212]

NOPE, I spoke to soon ... I put some voltage to the relay ... it works.
I didn't read any voltage from the socket, from 85 & 86.

So ... ECM is shot?
Is there anything else to consider?
What do you think?

Thanks,
Ken

[Tiger]

How about fuse #17... I remember a post back a few month ago... a guy in UK said his car stopped working and then he replaced one fuse... we all could not believe it... but it turns out that fuse does alot more work than the fusebox cover said.