Ot: Pew Pew Pew

[yaofeng]

You've swallowed the lie.

Its like that here where I live in NH. Everyone knows most people are probably carrying or able to put their hands on a loaded gun in a pinch and we have very low crime of any type here... and its this way whereever the honest citizen's God given right to posess the means to defend himself is protected.

I am glad I live in New Jersey and not New Hampshire. And you cannot convince me being able to carry weapon openly or concealed helps to lower the crime rate. Having the right to possess firearms, perhaps.

[yaofeng]

Good, you got that right!

You need to do some searching. Concealed carry is what you need a permit for.However, in most states you need no permit or anything to open carry... how does that make you feel? unsafe? Believe it or not the worst killing machine is not a gun, its more akin to your e34... IT'S THE CAR.

Think about this too, the people who you do not want to have guns, usually the people wanting to acquire a concealed carry permit, must go through a course and show their know how with a firearm. Some of these courses are not good enough. However most teach very well and shutting down the good courses is just as messed up as allowing the shitty ones to remain open because they fly under the radar.

Perhaps I am blind? Tell me where in America do you see people walking around with a hand gun in a holster strapped on the waist? Rifles openly displayed in pickups do not count. If you can name the cities, I will make sure I do not go visit.

[ryan roopnarine]

Perhaps I am blind? Tell me where in America do you see people walking around with a hand gun in a holster strapped on the waist? Rifles openly displayed in pickups do not count. If you can name the cities, I will make sure I do not go visit.

open carry is permitted in the entire state of arizona, virginia, vermont, (IIRC) new hampshire, alaska, off of the top of my head. most of the 50 states have concealed weapons permits, it is just a matter of political connectivity that permits some rather than others to get permits in certain states. I could not get a ccw applicable to nyc, nor could most jewellers, but robert deniro has one.

[ryan roopnarine]

I read Silveira v. Lockyer on the link provided but couldnt find this statement. But having read it, I can see the second amendment was written to ensure individual states retained the right to arm their own militia. If they left it to central government it probably wouldnt happen. So you would be left with a standing army controlled by central government. Well you just had a revolution to get rid of one standing army-the english-you didnt want another one in its place. I dont see how this case could be used to support an argument for an individual having guns as it says the reverse. But it did provide a fascinating insight. Many thanks

i'm not trying to be rude, but i think it is somewhat disingenuous to say that the second amendment to the bill of rights was created to reserve a right to the states. the people that founded the united states were wary of having a standing army, feeling that if one did have a standing army that had time on its hands, well, someone would find a use for it. it was not for about 40-50 years after the revolution that the united states had an actual proper navy, much of that work was assigned to privateers. much like much of the actual military work was assigned to individuals who ultimately fielded privately owned weapons.

furthermore, silviera is a united states court of appeal decision. the magic of the supreme court, as of yesterday, stands in direct opposition of that finding (ie, anything said there is probably irrelevant today). one can hem and haw all they want, but the truth of the matter for most adults is that this supreme court decision will remain in place for most of the remainder of their lives, if it isn't expanded upon in the future. conservatives have had 30+ years to overturn roe v. wade, but that hasn't happened yet, and its not going to happen anytime soon.

[yaofeng]

open carry is permitted in the entire state of arizona, virginia, vermont, (IIRC) new hampshire, alaska, off of the top of my head. most of the 50 states have concealed weapons permits, it is just a matter of political connectivity that permits some rather than others to get permits in certain states. I could not get a ccw applicable to nyc, nor could most jewellers, but robert deniro has one.

I do not doubt there are many States which allow open carry. But my question was not answered. Where in America do you see people walking on the street like in a western movie? What is the point of strapping a hand gun on your waist milling about on the street? Are we in a state of siege?

[ryan roopnarine]

i don't work for afp/reuters/&c. so i can't provide you with a picture on demand. if you were to visit any state where it is cheaper and less of a hassle to open carry instead of carrying concealed you'd eventually see someone in plain clothes with a gun on their hip. most people that carry don't want to scare or disturb people like yourself, so they pay the extra money and do the song and dance to obtain the concealed permit. however, some people, where they are permitted by law to do otherwise, don't feel obligated to conceal, and don't feel obligated to spend the money.

[yaofeng]

I am sorry. I still do not get it. I am not debating the right to carry firearms, open or concealed. Our constitution provides the stipulations and the laws provide the fine points. That is fine. I just fail to see the point of everyday people leaving his house in the morning carrying a hand gun, whether it is open or concealed. For what purpose? Self-defense? Against whom? And I don't know anyone who does that. At least no one I have association with do that. I can also tell you I will not live in such a community with such siege mentality.

I do have a smart phone strapped on my waist when I leave the house. I think it is far more useful than a hand gun.

[Guapo]

I do have a smart phone strapped on my waist when I leave the house. I think it is far more useful than a hand gun.

LOL, yes I would image you could beat your assailant over the head with your smart phone.

[ryan roopnarine]

if they are carrying concealed, you wouldn't know unless they wanted you to. estimate that 25-40% of the people that deliver your food there in new jersey have handguns on them, even though it may be illegal. i find that number, on average, is about the same everywhere, even here in florida with liberalised carry laws, even with employers that expressly forbid such, as most business owners won't care enough to pony up the money for a facial reconstruction after someone has been shot in the face.

why would you possibly mention that you carry your phone on your belt as an analogue to a gun? carrying things on belts is generally the oeuvre of law enforcement, no?

I am sorry. I still do not get it. I am not debating the right to carry firearms, open or concealed. Our constitution provides the stipulations and the laws provide the fine points. That is fine. I just fail to see the point of everyday people leaving his house in the morning carrying a hand gun, whether it is open or concealed. For what purpose? Self-defense? Against whom? And I don't know anyone who does that. At least no one I have association with do that. I can also tell you I will not live in such a community with such siege mentality.

I do have a smart phone strapped on my waist when I leave the house. I think it is far more useful than a hand gun.

[yaofeng]

if they are carrying concealed, you wouldn't know unless they wanted you to. estimate that 25-40% of the people that deliver your food there in new jersey have handguns on them, even though it may be illegal. i find that number, on average, is about the same everywhere, even here in florida with liberalised carry laws, even with employers that expressly forbid such, as most business owners won't care enough to pony up the money for a facial reconstruction after someone has been shot in the face.

why would you possibly mention that you carry your phone on your belt as an analogue to a gun? carrying things on belts is generally the oeuvre of law enforcement, no?

I will not buy 25% to 40% of the pizza delivey guys in my neighborhood have concealed weapons. You cannot prove it to me nor can I do otherwise. I mention the cell phone to illurstrate the uselessness of carrying a hand gun day in and day out without ever having to use it. That's all. Don't you get tired of it if it were you? Or are you going to say you scored another kill in a face off sometimes this week?