diplomacy with the nice mechanic

[whiskychaser]

You were stuck in your situation, so I understand not doing it yourself.

How is he replacing the valve? Lapping it in? Machine shops around here won't do just one valve - it's the whole head or nothing since you can't be guaranteed a good seal otherwise and the whole burn valve thing happens all over again.

The man has a point. Wouldnt anyone who had the head off take a look at the valves? And to charge only two hours labour to take it apart, change a valve and put it back together is a bit suss. I said before give them the opportunity to put the scratches right. Right now i'm thinking get your car out of there fast

[timandbim]

so i picked my car up last night - ended up working (and commuting!) pretty late and didn't make it to the shop until right when it was closing. the important thing is the car runs great and the work looks good as far as i can tell(errr... i can't really). i will take photos of the scratches but they aren't as bad as i thought (i think i maybe exaggerated it in my head a bit i was pretty stressed - there was road salt and crap all over it too). i was ready to make a big fuss but they're so small i just said they look like they were made by a car part - he already knew about the bodywork and he seemed willing to discuss it further but i felt it was such a minor issue compared to the amount of work that had been done, and they are small enough that i feel i kinda maybe could have missed them if they happened before, although i really doubt it. the owner did the job himself- i also kinda felt the first mechanic was in enough shXt already for screwing up the first time. i didn't feel i was unfairly charged or treated - it did take forever but everything was nuts here for everyone over christmas we were having trouble with frustrated customers at my job, too. i asked how he replaced the valve but i didn't really know what i was talking about - haven't had time to read up and he honestly didn't seem to understand what i was asking... ("mais, je ne comprend pas, je l'ai remplace avec un nouveau c'est tous...") he says the rest of the valves had no burns and he couldn't see any other damage and as far as he is concerned it's good as new. i'll go back and talk to him when i understand more he is very willing to talk. i wish i could have been there to see but i was at work the whole time. i'm not usually that much of an optimist but i do understand shXt happens and actually feel not so bad about the garage, although i didn't buy them a case of beer- and if there is a next time i will take photos of the car before they touch it.

Wouldnt anyone who had the head off take a look at the valves? And to charge only two hours labour to take it apart, change a valve and put it back together is a bit suss.

yeah- i think actually the owner is only charging 2 hours here because the mechanic should have checked the valves when the engine was apart the first time- and they had already taken it apart to find the problem without asking. this reinforces my belief that the mechanic screwed up the first time and the owner went back and made sure the job was done properly and billed me fairly.
i dunno- i'll post pics of the scratches and you guys can can call my a pusssy if you like.
gotta say i'm still kinda freaked out - like wtf happened????? and my eyes are so glued to the temp guage now i think i may be dangerous to other traffic and pedestrians! hey thanks a lot for your posts i was feeling a whole lot less vulnerable with you guys around - like i said pics to follow...

[whiskychaser]

I think your mechanic is being very modest or disingenuous when he said:
mais, je ne comprend pas, je l'ai remplace avec un nouveau c'est tous.
OK, I did 12 valves. But I wasnt inclined to say that and give a gallic shrug of the shoulders, like i'd just emptied the ashtray or something.
Bottom line: Good to hear you got the motor back!!

[timandbim]

I think your mechanic is being very modest or disingenuous when he said:
mais, je ne comprend pas, je l'ai remplace avec un nouveau c'est tous.
OK, I did 12 valves. But I wasnt inclined to say that and give a gallic shrug of the shoulders, like i'd just emptied the ashtray or something.
Bottom line: Good to hear you got the motor back!!

yes- i think he lost a lot of time on this job, although mostly due to his mechanic and suppliers screwing up, but he could have easily tried to make me eat some of the cost and it would have been difficult for me to stop him i think. i actually feel he is a good mechanic although i think he might want to clean up his shop procedures. the mechanic has already caught it i think judging by the look on his face one time i was there lol. i dunno - i'm liking the bottom line too... i was way more screwed than i knew and the whole thing could have been so much worse at a dishonest shop i'm sure. he knows i think his mechanic scratched my car and is obviously grateful i dropped it although he won't say.

here's some pics- what do you think? can't figure out how to focus - they actually look a bit worse in the photos than they are. he thinks it's the original water pump! (also you can check out the mess they left on the carpets here! not so bad for this filthy city actually)

yo - to you all - hope the new year goes better for us all than it started for me!

[repenttokyo]

if i were you, i would never go back there.

[whiskychaser]

The impeller on the pump doesnt look plastic. But if it was shot, then it was shot. Cant do any harm having a new one in there! The scratches look like someone was at your car with a chainsaw but they cant be that bad can they? Maybe its the pic or my eysight but does that valve head look bent? If your mechanic is half as bad as everyone thinks, you probably got off lightly. Main thing is you got the car back, its running OK. Its not even my car and i'm relieved you got it back

[timandbim]

The impeller on the pump doesnt look plastic. But if it was shot, then it was shot. Cant do any harm having a new one in there! The scratches look like someone was at your car with a chainsaw but they cant be that bad can they? Maybe its the pic or my eysight but does that valve head look bent? If your mechanic is half as bad as everyone thinks, you probably got off lightly. Main thing is you got the car back, its running OK. Its not even my car and i'm relieved you got it back

wait...a...second.... omg it would suck if i got wise to this too late, i was ready to go to bat. yes the valve is bent- wouldn't it have been making pops and stuff if the valve was already bent like that when i drove it to the shop? damn i'm slow sometimes. i think the impeller was metal originally on the pump for my year - not sure. thanks for the support - don't think you could be near as relieved as i am to have it back- although i'm going to have nightmares about what else this guy did to it. crappy crap crap crap. i'm thinking could have been way worse and hopefully isn't . damn. crap- yeah i'll use a tow truck next time. damn- i think i'm going to be pissed for a long time.

[whiskychaser]

wait...a...second.... omg it would suck if i got wise to this too late, i was ready to go to bat. yes the valve is bent

Easy to say it after the event, but your first post may give a clue as to why you had a bent valve:
they screwed up putting the timing belt back on the first time,
But maybe thats just me being cynical. Either way, hope all is well now

[timandbim]

You guys must be sick of this story but in case anyone's interested here's how it ends (I really hope, this episode I mean - I know other stuff will break...)

if i were you, i would never go back there.

So I went back there, heh. There was too much oil in the engine and the alternator belt was loose- didn't take my eye off them the whole time - I could hardly bare to watch. I spoke a bit with the owner about the bent valve - just said I'd spoken with others (true not only you guys) who told me it had probably been bent while the motor was been replaced. He said it's possible but he can't be sure, admitted he should have seen it the first time (he didn't say it was his mechanic not him), and said it was a mystery to him why only one valve was bent because if he had installed it wrong it should have blown more than one or a pair - said it might have been running bent and the friction caused the headgasket to melt.

Anyway that's just in a nutshell - we talked for a while (my french is pretty good but the shop vocab is tough). I wasn't so much after reimbursement of any kind just trying to figure out what happened. I've always kept my cars running well (err, mostly through good (other) mechanics, but on the whole by doing the easy stuff properly and by not driving them stupidly). I've been driving for a while now and never experienced this kind of engine failure or overheating before so you can imagine what a nightmare this has been and how much i would like to figure out what happened to my still-new-to-me car.

How is he replacing the valve? Lapping it in?

He said he lapped it in (before I asked actually- 'lapper'- french verb (only here I bet) - to lap wtf?). Seems like a pitb to 'faire lapper une valve'. So I guess I oughta pray for the whole burn valve thing not to happen again - should I get my valves checked right away by someone (else)?

I'd still really like to know if anyone has ever seen only the #2 exhaust valve fry on an m20 or any 6-cyl (and if so if it was really cold at the time). For sure nasty stuff happened when I was screwing around with my icv valve in -20'c and then overheating.

Anyways I would prefer to err on giving people the benefit of the doubt and the worst case scenerio here (assuming he didn't frig anything else up hmm) I think is I'm out 2 hours and the part and I'm not 100% sure about that. Bottom line it's running great, right? Now I can move on to less pressing issues such as why my sun visor won't stay all the way up and which part of the window motor do i whack to get it going again. I don't care about the scratches anymore at all (now at least one of the fenders matches the rest of the car and I did bitch about it just for fun) but I think next time I pass by that shop it'll be because my bicycle tires need air, or 'cause my ladyfriends need to bum some smokes- go beeatches!

[Ross]

Tim,
I gotta tell you that your "mechanic" sounds like a dolt.
Perhaps something is lost in translation but the circumstances you describe and the things the mechanic has said to do aren't right.
It sounds like you are a good sport but this guy is ****ing you or a moron.
Time to take your lumps and get out I think. Be glad he's not your doctor.