Update on starting issues (see Pic)

[Flamin'Cow]

Ok, thanks to some help I have received from this and another forum I (think) I have narrowed down the problem of my intermittent starting.

Supposedly if the 'motronic' or 'starter' RELAY is on the way out, then that would explain why the car starts sometimes - but not others.

Would someone please explain to me WHAT the relay (arrowed) is for as when I remove it the car wont start (wont even turn over and no 'click' from the solenoid) - which is exactly the same symtoms as I am getting with my 'occasional' non-start. If this relay is on the way out - would that explain my starting issues?

Also, what is the little black wire with the greeny-yellow stripe that connects to THE TOP of the starter solenoid? it seems that the car starts, with/without this connected - is it important?



Thanks for your help

Flamin'cow

[genphreak]

I don't know, but I'll guess-

relay is the starter motor relay, so removed you get no solenoid power and hence no starter motor cranking.

ie Switch in keybarrel powers a 30A Relay which in turn powers the 200A solenoid which powers the starter motor itself.

Relays cna be repalced or repaired- often dirty contacts, armatures that have lost their spring or dry joints are at fault.

I'll guess that Pin 14 on the engine connector directly powrs the solenoid
(black/yelllow wire)... but its a long shot!

Good luck, Nick

[Flamin'Cow]

Thanks for your help, re the relay - gonna have to go to the stealership and get a new one...

As for the wire, the car starts (when it starts) with OR without this wire connected!

[DaveVoorhis]

Also, what is the little black wire with the greeny-yellow stripe that connects to THE TOP of the starter solenoid? it seems that the car starts, with/without this connected - is it important?

As I recall (don't have wiring diagrams handy here at work) it's used to indicate to the ECU and other systems that the starter is powered.

BTW, if you need to spin the starter without engaging it, you can temporarily connect battery +ve to that connector.

[Ross]

I believe the wire is connected to the OBC.
Try switching the relay with the other one or just change it for a new one, they are cheap.

[myles]

Only autos have that relay. It is will prevent the starter solenoid from getting power if the car is not in Park or Neutral when starting.

Manual cars have a jumper or bypass plug there.

[RobPatt]

...tells you what the relay is for... maybe not how it works, but...

[Flamin'Cow]

Errr - My car IS a Manual, got a clutch, 5spd gear-box - the whole lot! (and no it isnt one of those fitted with a clutch 'switch' - which must be depressed in order to start).

Also, the diagram in the lid of the box only tells me what the fuses are for - not what the relays are for/do....

If this wire were not to be connected - would that perhaps cause an issue? - Its strange as the car still starts (sometimes) even with this wire detached!

[DaveVoorhis]

If this wire were not to be connected - would that perhaps cause an issue? - Its strange as the car still starts (sometimes) even with this wire detached!

No, listen: That wire does not power the starter. It is used to indicate to other systems that the starter is being powered. The starting system is pretty simple. If it's not the solenoid, then it's likely the ignition switch or a wiring problem. You need to isolate whether the starter is being powered when it fails to turn over, and whether anything else is being powered when it fails to turn over. Next time it fails, get out your voltmeter and start tracing, and if you need a wiring diagram ask me and I'll send you one.

[Flamin'Cow]

Thanks Dave, A wiring diagram might be of assistance as I only have the crappy one that comes with the Haynes guide :-(

I am getting power to the injectors (as they 'hum') when I turn the key, but nothing to any of the connectors on the starter/solenoid - nothing - its a dead circuit (but not all the time).

Although this wire doesn't power the system, if it were to be disconnected for a period of time/starts, would that perhaps fool the OBC into thinking that there was a problem with the starter/solenoid and therefore not 'allow' the car to start? - Just thinking out loud here....