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[trumpetr]

I think this might be a little bit of overstatement !

By "we" I presume you mean USA and I presume that you no longer have a draft for your servicemen who serve in war zones.

This then means that all of the servicemen and women "fighting for our (USA's) rights" are career soldiers. Does invading a sovereign country (Iraq), no matter how corrupt or evil it might be, constitute fighting for our rights ? I would argue not, and we have Australian servicemen and women in Iraq as well.

What we don't have is your death count.

What did they think that joining the armed forces meant ? Playing in a band ? What is the old saying : "join the armed forces, travel to exciting lands, meet new people and kill them."

The people I feel sorry for are the families and relatives of those who have died or been injured in any conflict. They are those who suffer most ! Through no fault of their own.

The big issue in Australia during the Vietnam war years was that we had National Service during that time and national servicemen were being sent to Vietnam. This was a ballot system where only about a third of eligible young men did national service. Now we also only have career servicemen and women.

As Hawkeye Pearce said in an episode of MASH : if there weren't any soldiers we wouldn't have wars.

Hawkeye was perhaps not totally correct but there is something in it.

As I remember,,,there was no draft for aussies, either. Not WWII, not now.
Ballot system?? you mean, a vote? only those who wanted to be in the service were?

My point,,and my only point was,,,to respect those that have fought, for what ever the **** you think they were fighting for,,,(mostly for your right to say 'what ever the ****". Read back,,,i said,,,no matter what political affilation you have,,,,just respect the troops.

My son is is Iraq,,,,,82nd airborne,,,,,,his job is to protect the civilians of iraq from suicide bombers,,,and insurgents whose favorite weapon is improvised explosive devices placed along road ways,,,or in mosques, of fellow iraqis that are of a different sect.
He airlifts children, that are hurt in these bombings. They (insurgents) are not bombing americans,,,they are Shiites against Suniis, trying to kill each other off, an age old war, with little or no end in sight.

Isnt it nice that we can have this convo,,,between here and OZ,,,and no bombs going off?

Yor referenced "hawkeye pierce. It was mentioned not long ago in this forum,,about what america looks like, to other countries,,,,most notably to South Africa,,,,,and it was said,,,,what we see about america, is what we see on television.

All i was saying, is support the troops, no matter if you support the government.
Believe it or not,,,they ae fighting for your freedom, too.

I apologize again for my unforgivable breach of ettiquete in my use of punctuation.

[Zeuk in Oz]

As I remember,,,there was no draft for aussies, either. Not WWII, not now.
Ballot system?? you mean, a vote? only those who wanted to be in the service were?

My point,,and my only point was,,,to respect those that have fought, for what ever the **** you think they were fighting for,,,(mostly for your right to say 'what ever the ****". Read back,,,i said,,,no matter what political affilation you have,,,,just respect the troops.

My son is is Iraq,,,,,82nd airborne,,,,,,his job is to protect the civilians of iraq from suicide bombers,,,and insurgents whose favorite weapon is improvised explosive devices placed along road ways,,,or in mosques, of fellow iraqis that are of a different sect.
He airlifts children, that are hurt in these bombings. They (insurgents) are not bombing americans,,,they are Shiites against Suniis, trying to kill each other off, an age old war, with little or no end in sight.

Isnt it nice that we can have this convo,,,between here and OZ,,,and no bombs going off?

Yor referenced "hawkeye pierce. It was mentioned not long ago in this forum,,about what america looks like, to other countries,,,,most notably to South Africa,,,,,and it was said,,,,what we see about america, is what we see on television.

All i was saying, is support the troops, no matter if you support the government.
Believe it or not,,,they ae fighting for your freedom, too.

I apologize again for my unforgivable breach of ettiquete in my use of punctuation.

I must say that I have difficulty understanding how the invasion of Iraq is in any way preserving my freedom or right to say fu@k, but I will not go any further.

There was a draft in Australia to go to Vietnam - that is what we called a ballot system - everyone's name/number/whatever system they used was was placed into a hat (or computer or whatever) and approximately a third of the 18 year old population was made to do national service with a proportion of these ending up in Vietnam (my recollection is about half but I am not sure). In other words approximately one sixth of the 18 year old population ended up in Vietnam at any time.

I missed out on this lottery by 2 years. I was 16 in 1972 when national service was abolished.

When I quoted Hawkeye I was not suggesting that he represented a view of America - I was using the simplistic world-wide view that there could be no conflicts without combatants. It is just that, simplistic, but there is a grain of truth in the irony.

I feel sorry for all the troops in Iraq and their families, but I totally reject any justification for them being there. Desert Storm was completely different, in my opinion, as Iraq had invaded Kuwait. This conflict cannot be rationalised the same way. My view ? George W is certifiable and should be locked up.

Not that in any way I blame the troops. These are political decisions made far from the battlefield. I just feel sorry for all the suffering this conflict has caused both sides.

Perhaps the sooner America realises that no-one voted them to be the world's policeman we will all be better off.

I hope your son returns safely and there is a quick halt to the conflict. I cannot even imagine how awful it must be for you to have him over there.

I would also add that despite how left wing / commie / marxist-lenninist my views might seem, I am none of those things. I am simply sick and tired of people killing each other in the name of religion/oil/christianity/gas/power/lebensraum (strike out whichever is not applicable) and as the father of 4 teenage sons I totally condemn the continuing slaughter of young lives for no useful purpose.

[Fred Tyler]

If you can read this, thank a teacher!
If you read this in english, thank a soldier

[Zeuk in Oz]

If you can read this, thank a teacher!
If you read this in english, thank a soldier

I would rather think

"If you can read this in english (sic), thank Bill Gates !"

[mattyb]

yes exactly right! and that happens to be our "bought" uranium not leased oki doki!

[guinness]

Have to chime in here. I just got back from a deployment that included several months in Iraq. My fellow Marines and I are all volunteers, however none of us wanted to go to Iraq. I seem to recall that the U.S. was attacked several years ago by Muslim fundamentalists and in the course of fighting back we wound up in Iraq. I have heard that Iraq didn’t have terrorists till we got there, (don’t believe that) but if they showed up for us, then I would rather that we kill them in Iraq than in New York, London, or even in Sydney. They hate the whole western way of life. The idea behind the fundamentalist movement is that if you are not a good Muslim then you need to die, so we are right back to the beginning, kill them in the middle east or kill them here.