Project Apocolyps

[DueyT]

from my limited knowlage, im thinking that Rustam is not considering this the right way, its a gear ratio, not simply a larger gear. if i was to put a 4.10 in my car it would squat harder as compared to a 3.23. i think its the revelutions of the output shaft as compared to wheels/what the diff puts to the wheels. so say you have a 2.93, that is closer to a 1 to 1 ration then with a 4.10, so the gear wouls actully be smaller in the 4.10 then the 2.93

this is all to the best of my ideas, so im not positive, but i think thats how it is

Kyle, whe most guys talk about gearing, the terms higher/deeper/larger gear normally mean a larger numerical ratio (like a 4.10:1) and shorter/shallower/smaller gear means less reduction, like a 2.83:1.

You're right, if you're talking about the pinion gear -- in a 4.10:1 diff, the pinion gear (smaller, spiral cut on the end of the pinion drive) would in fact be smaller than the pinion gear in a 3.23 rear end, but the ring gears are approximately the same size from one gear set to the next...

The point in question is not a simple one, since we're now talking about deflection forces and torque transfer issues from variations in moments (as in twisting forces about an axis) due to different radii of the pinion gears and the effect that has on the ring gear and differential casing. I'd have to do a bit of Newtonian mechanics to refresh my memory on how the forces would work out...my gut feel is actually to say that, if there is enough torque to light up the tires and the tires and suspension components haven't been changed, then different gears would not have as much affect on squat as some might think...

Cheers,
Duey

[Rustam]

its a gear ratio, not simply a larger gear. if i was to put a 4.10 in my car it would squat harder as compared to a 3.23. i think its the revelutions of the output shaft as compared to wheels/what the diff puts to the wheels. so say you have a 2.93, that is closer to a 1 to 1 ration then with a 4.10, so the gear wouls actully be smaller in the 4.10 then the 2.93

Correct - the issue is with the ratio therefore what I said stands - decreasing the radius of the pinion gear makes the ring gear relatively larger. It does not matter which one is increased and which one is decreased in radius - so long as the ratio is same the ratio in torques is same. I simply chose to look from the stand point of increasing radius of the ring gear. I might have as well chosen to look from the stand point of decreased radius of the pinion gear - essentailly same argumentation.

One can make pinion gear smaller for 4:1 ratio and someone else may make ring gear larger for same 4:1 ratio - since the ratio is same the relationship between input torque and output torque is same - in ths case 4:1.

My point was to outline what happens between relationship between input and output torques - which is essentially the gear ratio as you have observed...

____

"its a gear ratio, not simply a larger gear" - now this is an idiom - I really don't know what you mean to say here...

[Jon K]

If you've ever been in a car that's gone from a 3.15 or 3.23 to a 3.64 or 3.73 or higher, the rear ends sag. It's because the acceleration forces shift to the rear car much faster than with a 3.23 lower ratio rear end. You can write pages about if you want - go ride in a car with a higher numerical rear end... it will squat.

Regardless of what you think about logistics of it happening, thats not even the subject - the subject is that my ~300hp car on a 3.23lsd squats under acceleration. I can post a video sometime later and you can see just how it is. Thats with bilstein sport shocks, H&R sport springs, polyurethane subframe plates, and new subframe bushings... mrs "im going to build a 1200hp e34" thinks a bilstein/H&R combo is going to support 1200hp. Think again.

[sKilled]

Shut up shut up shut up...all you do is fight...why can't we be a happy family like we used too???

[Jon K]

Families don't like ********ters.

[sKilled]

True.

[kyleN20]

the way you said it made it sound like "increase the diff (aka numericaly) and you will have less squating" and people see that like increase from a 2.93 to a 3.73, and thats false, but if you are talking about the gear size itself your right, but almost noone talks like that.

[kyleN20]

basically were just tring to stop **** like someone coming in and his first thread is "im building a 1200rwhp supercar that handels like a ferrari ect ect"
because no one needs to waste their time when someone comes in blowing smoke up our asses. lord knows its gunna take a **** load of money to EVER get 1200rwhp out of a m30, and then a shitload of money to make the rest of the car handel it, and then its not streetable and doesent make usable HP, might as well buy a dodge 2500 with a cummins turbo, talk to winifred bout that.

kyle

[Rustam]

If you've ever been in a car that's gone from a 3.15 or 3.23 to a 3.64 or 3.73 or higher, the rear ends sag. It's because the acceleration forces shift to the rear car much faster than with a 3.23 lower ratio rear end.

you may want to consider to keep rereading the thread that I pointed to, untill it starts sinking in...

You can write pages about if you want

Sure I can - but it's unnecessary since I've provided complete superficial account of what is happening. The text is complete - now its about the reader to make best judgement. You can take this text to a physics professor and he'll take you through it...

- go ride in a car with a higher numerical rear end... it will squat.

and the reason that you find it necessary to tell me this is? what? did I say or imply that the car with larger rear end ratio does not squat? no I did not - look again... I never said that a car with larger rear end ratio does not squat...

Regardless of what you think about logistics of it happening, thats not even the subject - the subject is that my ~300hp car on a 3.23lsd squats under acceleration.

Of course it does, and I already provided the reasoning for that. Having done that I don't see a need for you to tell me this - I've shown my complete undertsanding of the fact that your car squats - or any other car for that matter.

And what you mention here is not the subject (in fact there is nothing subjective to it - all cars squat not just yours, regardless of "hp" ratio or type of the end) - you started arguing with me when I said that the higher gear ratio makes the car squat less - that is the subject - whether the higher gear ratio does or does not make the car squat less...

I can post a video sometime later and you can see just how it is.

Sure you can post a video, and sure it will show that the car squats. I don't see the need for it however - it's completely obvious that the car will squat - such are laws of nature... And I never said that It would not...

_______________


"Go ride in a car and it will squat" - pardon me - how exactly do you know how much the same car gets to squat after installation of higher gear ratio when you accelerate it from stand-still??? by feeling? Make videos of a car acclerated from stand-still before and after installation of higher gear ratio in the rear end and take a close look.

One question now - are you talking about squatting while moving just after the car has launched forward or before? I've been discreet enough to make sure that I talked of squatting BEFORE the car moves - have you been able to ascertain this fine point?

I am assuming you had dared to read my other thread...

You need to pay attention to what's being said to you before venturing to furnish a reply...

[genphreak]

You're being ridiculous. Your website has Hot Import Nights, Import Tuner, and Modified Magazine as "Resources". You have a sales section that sells ADR rims 4x100, 17x7 in ricetastic styles. You expect us to believe youre building a 1200whp car. Im bored with this now.

It's anarchically funny this. Quit reacting Jon, best let him be. "I am serious, I am the man, (stop banging on about me the way I've been crappin and fartin my way into oblivion...) ask me anthing else, I'll show ya... I know my ****" 23 , 12 or 13, anyone can answer anything by researching on the Net. Many can even build fantastic sites, but ******** smells on forums as much as it does when its fresh on one's boot in the middle of the loungeroom in front of your future father-in law.

Perhaps it's the beginning of new style of Internet scam; ie lurk and spike threads in forums - research it (as best as one can) and try to get everyone to buy products (send money) from a hashed up site... then do the runner at just the right moment.

uh, it just doesn't work...

Nice on RTLoui, time for another joke dude- but let's not drag it out so much next time... momma, this was a painful thread!