Strut Brace -- Take a look

[Erwin8r]

For what's out there this does LOOK good. I think the Hartge ones are POS as I have seen them.

If we are talking about handling, then sways, suspension geometry with camber plates, springs, shocks, should be looked at.

If we are talking about body rigidity, then I would be better interested in an X-brace like the M3 lightweight.

I know several people with strut braces and the only noticeable gain I see is a harsher ride as energy from on tower is transfered to the other. I have seen very good braces that tie into the firewall or a rollcage, triangulating for better body rigidity.

I guess if I had a full race suspension, polyurethane bushings, and using slicks then I would get it b/c anything is better. But for the street, where compliance helps keep the tires in contact with the uneven surfaces of the road, I wouldn't get one. I have done well with a good spring/shock combo, good sways, great tires and camber plates.

Handling/rigidity usually go hand in hand. I think the common ground is that we acknowledge that some compromise is necessary for a "street" car. My 540/6 is very solid and predictable until 8/10ths--then she gets a bit out of shape. Sure, it's no WRX or Elise, but I do appreciate the sharper feel of a finely integrated suspension/handling system and I know she can be drastically improved. This includes the correct sized sway bars, struts/shocks/springs, strut bars, adjustable camber plates front and rear, etc. I'm not ready to hack into the cabin for a half-cage (as a partner has dones with his barely-legal G35 coupe), and forced induction is a ways off, but a strut bar would not be in the "over the top" column on my to do list.... The LSD went in today (3.45), as did the AC Schnitzer steering wheel (the M-Tech II was just a wee bit too large at 385mm). I've got a line on some decent M-Tech springs, a set of Koni's, followed by M5 sways, then maybe that Canadian strut brace...

[Scott H]

makes me want to go take it out on the interns at work.....

....... I was referring to the acrimony and defensiveness....

[Erwin8r]

Yup, Turn in is better. Camber is also about suspension geometry. Yeah caster would help thus shortening the wheel base in theory, but so does the angle of the wheel. Sways also improve turn-in, and shocks and springs and plus sizing wheels. All these have nothing to do with the caster. Just an FYI.

Have you seen those videos on slaloms, increase negative camber helps as the geometry is better for turning at any time, one way is it helps reduce the tire roll on its edges thus getting better grip on the tire contact area.

For those who know. toe angle also affect turn in or straight line stability. Toe-out helps turn in, toe-in improves straight line stability especially at higher speeds. Tire wear is different for each.

Seen videos? How about worn Hoosiers around the big track at Willow? Or Nittos around the Streets of Willow (that poor Celica... LOL!--not to mention Dunlop D208 GPs on my GSXR 1000... ;o) . Saying that camber affects turn-in is like saying that sway-bars affect turn-in: of course it does, but they are all part of the front suspension system (just like the spring rate, the tire compound, the rebound and compression settings, etc...). That wasn't my point; my point is that there is a noticeable turning advantage when utilizing a properly designed strut brace. I'm running the time attack at California Speedway next week in my GF's Golf GTI--should be fun, and I wish I had a strut brace on it!

[Erwin8r]

makes me want to go take it out on the interns at work.....

LOL!!! Can I rent you out to 'TO' some of these wacky legal secretaries?

[Brandon J]

Seen videos? How about worn Hoosiers around the big track at Willow? Or Nittos around the Streets of Willow (that poor Celica... LOL!--not to mention Dunlop D208 GPs on my GSXR 1000... ;o) . Saying that camber affects turn-in is like saying that sway-bars affect turn-in: of course it does, but they are all part of the front suspension system (just like the spring rate, the tire compound, the rebound and compression settings, etc...). That wasn't my point; my point is that there is a noticeable turning advantage when utilizing a properly designed strut brace. I'm running the time attack at California Speedway next week in my GF's Golf GTI--should be fun, and I wish I had a strut brace on it!

I have run my own set of slicks and read my post further down the thread. Last I remember, almost 99% of these e34s are used on the street. Of course all contribute as a system. So then what are you saying when these cars aren't set for caster adjustment from the factory and need kmacs or offset bushings. Now are you just talking to talk or are you referencing these to the e34 that almost ALL of us drive? Last I remember the link in this thread was to a strut brace for the e34.

There are many cars out there that do benefit greatly from strutbars, albeit that their body and chassis are not as stiff as the e34 or don't drive the rear wheels. But in reference to a street e34 where as far as I know (please correct me if I am wrong) you can adjust caster only with kmacs, minus any custom offset bushing. So, instead of filling space trying to overtake this thread with theories or real world experience to other vehicles that behave differently than the e34 on the street, again read my post further down the thread. I have some information on real world experience for the street e34.

[Erwin8r]

I have run my own set of slicks and read my post further down the thread. Last I remember, almost 99% of these e34s are used on the street. Of course all contribute as a system. So then what are you saying when these cars aren't set for caster adjustment from the factory and need kmacs or offset bushings. Now are you just talking to talk or are you referencing these to the e34 that almost ALL of us drive? Last I remember the link in this thread was to a strut brace for the e34.

There are many cars out there that do benefit greatly from strutbars, albeit that their body and chassis are not as stiff as the e34 or don't drive the rear wheels. But in reference to a street e34 where as far as I know (please correct me if I am wrong) you can adjust caster only with kmacs, minus any custom offset bushing. So, instead of filling space trying to overtake this thread with theories or real world experience to other vehicles that behave differently than the e34 on the street, again read my post further down the thread. I have some information on real world experience for the street e34.

Whoa--first of all, my post discussing caster was in direct response to a post from Scott discussing Camber--and the tone was along the lines of intimating how we could get ridiculous discussing race suspension when in fact we were simply debating the merits of a strut brace. And "albeit" would prelude a divergent, almost paradoxical thought, not a correlating one (as in "he was fast, albeit sloppy..."). But I digress to my original point: who cares what 99% of the people do with THEIR cars--what's important is what you want to do with YOUR car. A strut brace is not a bad mod... and "overtake this thread?" Do you really feel that you're BMW-Suspension knowledge is that threatened? Your supremacy questioned? Geezus-H-Chreeist...... Just like you, unless I'm banned form this site, I have as much right to voice an opinion. So if want to just "talk," then that's what I'll do. You can deduce whatever you like from that.

[Hector]

and I can feel the increased difference in stability when turning although small but noticeable. The strut brace performs at its best in cars with bigger wheels/wider tires. I believe I have posted here (or elsewhere) why this is the case.

[Erwin8r]

I have run my own set of slicks and read my post further down the thread. Last I remember, almost 99% of these e34s are used on the street. Of course all contribute as a system. So then what are you saying when these cars aren't set for caster adjustment from the factory and need kmacs or offset bushings. Now are you just talking to talk or are you referencing these to the e34 that almost ALL of us drive? Last I remember the link in this thread was to a strut brace for the e34.

There are many cars out there that do benefit greatly from strutbars, albeit that their body and chassis are not as stiff as the e34 or don't drive the rear wheels. But in reference to a street e34 where as far as I know (please correct me if I am wrong) you can adjust caster only with kmacs, minus any custom offset bushing. So, instead of filling space trying to overtake this thread with theories or real world experience to other vehicles that behave differently than the e34 on the street, again read my post further down the thread. I have some information on real world experience for the street e34.

Filling space? Overtaking this thread? Are you really feeling that your "BMW-Suspension-tuning Supremacy" is that threatened? Geezus-H.....
Who cares what 99% of people do to their cars--what is important is what YOU do to your car. What "...all of us drive..." is a whole lot of people, and they can voice their own opinion without being lumped in and generalized for... Again, a strut brace is a relatively inane mod with perceptible benefits. And I won't get into a pissing contest with you regarding who's turned more laps or who's done what with whom. I've shared "real world" experience here--this 540/6 is not my first E34, let alone my first BMW, and I have turned more than enough laps on both tracks in Rosamond to at least comment on my experience...

[Bill R.]

I may have missed something interesting here... Itchy trigger finger?

[Scott H]

You *may* have missed something interesting?

You DID miss something intersting.

I guess this is what happens when we institute heavy moderation.

I may have missed something interesting here... Itchy trigger finger?