experiences with oversteer

[rob101]

yeah as i said, its complicated. I think its a bit misleading Slip angles are important but to say that they are the cause of oversteer/ understeer (ie to define based on them)is like saying okay so weight never gets transferred around the 4 tyres and wheels never change their camber. ie the "grip" (ability of the tyre to create lateral force) is only dependant on slip angles, which isn't true. I guess its used because its an easy definition a one size fits all cop out, i am not saying its not correct, but i think it is ambigious.

For example imagine a car is steered instaneously away from straight ahead, ie the front slip angle is the steer angle and the rear slip angle is zero because you haven't started to turn. so that means this is understeer? no it doesn't.

[Jeff N.]

In the end, if the rear slips prior to the front, you have oversteer. And vice versa. How to you get to what end slips *is* complicated. And not static.

Usually what causes a mishap (as they were being discussed way earlier in the thread) is due lack of a fundamental understanding of what happens to the car when the driver modifies an input. Drivers on a constant line tend not to crash. If you don't understand the very basics of dynamic weight transfer, friction circles, and slip angles then you don't have much a chance of predicting what your car will do.

Of course the simple answer is to drive at 2/10ths of the car's ability as most do a day to day basis. Short of other idiots aiming at your space on the road there's not much to worry about then.

[rob101]

agreed, but i think car control is a skill that comes from practice rather than knowing the theory. Designing and tuning car's handling is something that can only come from theory or empirical knowledge (which is the more costly option hehe).

In the end, if the rear slips prior to the front, you have oversteer. And vice versa. How to you get to what end slips *is* complicated. And not static.

Usually what causes a mishap (as they were being discussed way earlier in the thread) is due lack of a fundamental understanding of what happens to the car when the driver modifies an input. Drivers on a constant line tend not to crash. If you don't understand the very basics of dynamic weight transfer, friction circles, and slip angles then you don't have much a chance of predicting what your car will do.

Of course the simple answer is to drive at 2/10ths of the car's ability as most do a day to day basis. Short of other idiots aiming at your space on the road there's not much to worry about then.

[Jeff N.]

A bit of basic car control theory - again, the general effects of throttle and brake on weight transfer and friction circle, etc - go a long way to help a driver understand what's occuring with their car.

Theory won't make you proficient; you need practice for that.

I've seen skills days taught both with and without 'ground school'. Ground school of course being a basic crash course in theory. Driver's improvement are much better with some ground school.

Planning your suspension is something you absolutely need theory for.

agreed, but i think car control is a skill that comes from practice rather than knowing the theory. Designing and tuning car's handling is something that can only come from theory or empirical knowledge (which is the more costly option hehe).

[R1daveg]

IMO the control of throttle in oversteer is an art in itself. A method for recovery which doesn't take as much learning, and is less upsetting to the cars weight transfer, is to use the clutch (if u have one..)
My E34 is auto, but still very predictable in oversteer in mild amounts in the wet (not really enough kw's in a M50 to power oversteer 235/17/45 rubber... ) and much more controlled in sports mode.
I dont drive it like that often (un-BMW-like behoviour!!), just often enough to keep the skill up.

[Maki]

Left-foot braking while maintaining throttle or easing off *very* gently will settle an oversteering RWD car.

The left-foot braking technique tends to lock up the undriven wheels -- the rears on an FWD car (helping the car pivot) or the fronts on an RWD car (inducing a degree of understeer and settling the car down). Throttle prevents lockup on the driven wheels and enhances rear-axle traction (with RWD) by keeping the front axle from loading up too much.

ABS will keep the front wheels from locking up completely, but you will get repeated, momentary lockup under low-traction conditions.

[Torque]

One of my experiences with oversteer resulted in a scratched bumper moulding and a scratched Nissan Altima. Lesson I learned from it is: 1 lane is not nearly wide enough to execute a proper drift.

[dacoyote]

....to execute a proper drift.

Dude... you said that .... Drifting word....

[rob101]

I am extremely anti-oversteer.

so are most people, as for Left foot braking, i think i will pass, last time i tried to brake even slowly with my Left foot i almost when through the windscreen.

[Torque]

Dude... you said that .... Drifting word....

Yes I did. Now if you could just get over my username ...