Book rates: the saga continues

[Ausmpower]

blah blah

[Derek A.]

A. When you call up a shop with specific tasks. They know you had it diagnosed someplace else and are totally shopping price. Furthermore - they are at a disadvantage becuase they don't know who made the diagnosis and what the root problems are.

B. There is a program called KSD. Its what the dealers use to look up labor operations. Its based on a measure of time called a FRU. The translation into labor hours varies a bit - as BMW's labor rates is on a sliding scale of difficulty. Rewiring an E65 pays more per hour than a shift knob replacement on an e34.

c. This is customer pay work. There is no standard. The dealer can quote what they want. They may know that its a 15 year old car and to pad the time becuase stuff is going to break. Maybe the guys in the shop aren't familiar with the older cars. Regardless - they can charge what they want.

d. Providing your own parts is another way that the dealer says - this is not worth our time to pursue. Did the guy by the right parts? are they going to break on us? If a part fails do we need to cover is under our warranty? Am I going to marry this job if it goes sideways?

e. The by the book rate has nothing to do with how long a tech can perform an operation. My buddy holds the record at a dealership. He billed 38 hours of labor in one day. He is good, is organized and has the real estate to perform he makes money. If the guys takes 10 hours to do a job that pays two - that is all he gets paid for. Its a simple system.

The press has no interest in this its just the way the business runs. A BMW dealer is out there to make money - and a DIY'er on a 15 year old car just doesn't spell money.

Hope this helps.

D.-

[dacoyote]

Let this horse die... please

Some dealers are crooks... so are some Indys... whats the point...

you know.. water is wet...

[Jay 535i]

Let this horse die... please

Some dealers are crooks... so are some Indys... whats the point...

you know.. water is wet...

My point is that there appears to be a problem in the system, and that customers pay the price. If BMW dealerships are SYSTEMATICALLY defrauding customers, then I certainly think that is worth discussing.

I'm not making genalizations or trying to devise some pantheon of garage goodwill. I'm talking only about BMW dealers. What others do is irrelevant in this discussion.

If you don't find this thread helpful, you don't have to participate, but I am trying to save others the aggravation that I went through, and also trying to get some answers. If someone tried to steal $600 from you, you'd want answers, too.

When/if I hear a reasonable explanation, I'll let it go.

[dacoyote]

My point is that we spent what... 68 posts last time talking about this....

You know... Ford 5 years ago was the same thing... in fact the price was different talking to a diff service manager.... I bet it is the same thing today.

There are serveral people on the board that work at dealerships. They posted their 2cents about it.

It's like the people that ask... I have a 55 - 60 mph shimmy... whats wrong....

[Jay 535i]

My point is that we spent what... 68 posts last time talking about this....

Yeah, and we left off saying that I'd call other dealers to see if I get the same answer. It was a sort of experiment to see if they really do use book rates. As far as I can tell, they don't. Or, if they do, then the book is only one variable in determining the cost to the customer.

I thought the phone calls I'd made and the results I'd posted would be helpful to some. Sorry if you disagree.

[CheapCheap1]

Well, as the "new" BMW ads, all maintenance works (including the brake pads & wipers) are FREE !!!
(Yeah, right...it's FREE. However, BMWNA may get the bills later on at a "big" discounted rate...)

So, the $tealer has to make up some $$$ by jacking up the "time" referred as a "book rate"...huhhh ???

Huhhh, it just scared the **** of me...
- Does anyone know how much the "book rate" $tealer will be charging for reset the air-bag light ?
- Should I buy a Peake tool & DIY ?

[dacoyote]

...
Huhhh, it just scared the **** of me...
- Does anyone know how much the "book rate" $tealer will be charging for reset the air-bag light ?
- Should I buy a Peake tool & DIY ?

I wanta say it's 250 bucks to run the dignostics... then if they find anything... it goes from there...

Do you know why the light is on?

[pundit]

It's not uncommon to be charged more for labor if you supply your own parts.
First the shop is making nothing on the parts so they'll often make it up by slugging you extra for fitting them.
It may not be ethical but many businesses do it. They're argument could be that they are in business to supply both parts & labor and if you prevent them making anything on the parts then they may feel quite entitled to make it up on the labor and if you don't like that well....?

Secondly as they can't be sure of the nature of the parts they are being asked to fit, they'll often include some extra 'fat' in the labor quote to cover any unforseen fitment difficulties. This can be considered a more legitmate reason as anyone who has ever given a standard fixed labor quote will tell you after being given faulty or poor quality parts to fit only to have the customer refuse to allow a variation when the job turns into a nightmare.

.5 of an hour may be enough to fit a genuine BMW indicator lamp assembly but if it was an aftermarket Taiwanese unit bought off Ebay, it may not.
On many occasions I have seen fenders requiring holes to be enlongated with a file in order to make a lamp assembly fit. These cheap non-genuine Asian parts were supplied by insurance companies as part of an accident repair. Insurance companies pay based on their own book rate. And guess how much extra time they would allow to make these cheap non-fitting parts fit?
You guessed it... zero!

As for the overall difference in the quotes, well it doesn't matter what kind of book anyone has, if you get half a dozen quotes you'll get up to half a dozen variations. If all the quotes had been identical I would have been surprised.

[willobmw]

BMW always says that the dealer sets the final price. If you go to different dealers, the parts prices will be different too. Thank BMWNA for that.
Willobmw