Book rates: the saga continues

[CheapCheap1]

Well, as the "new" BMW ads, all maintenance works (including the brake pads & wipers) are FREE !!!
(Yeah, right...it's FREE. However, BMWNA may get the bills later on at a "big" discounted rate...)

So, the $tealer has to make up some $$$ by jacking up the "time" referred as a "book rate"...huhhh ???

Huhhh, it just scared the **** of me...
- Does anyone know how much the "book rate" $tealer will be charging for reset the air-bag light ?
- Should I buy a Peake tool & DIY ?

[dacoyote]

...
Huhhh, it just scared the **** of me...
- Does anyone know how much the "book rate" $tealer will be charging for reset the air-bag light ?
- Should I buy a Peake tool & DIY ?

I wanta say it's 250 bucks to run the dignostics... then if they find anything... it goes from there...

Do you know why the light is on?

[Jay 535i]

My point is that we spent what... 68 posts last time talking about this....

Yeah, and we left off saying that I'd call other dealers to see if I get the same answer. It was a sort of experiment to see if they really do use book rates. As far as I can tell, they don't. Or, if they do, then the book is only one variable in determining the cost to the customer.

I thought the phone calls I'd made and the results I'd posted would be helpful to some. Sorry if you disagree.

[dacoyote]

... It's like calling up McDonalds and asking how much a Big Mac is, and rather than getting a straight answer the reply is a mix of what's written on the menu, what the cashier feels like on that day, and how hungry I am...

Thats exactly what it is... it's a point of life

[Jay 535i]

Thats exactly what it is... it's a point of life

Perhaps, but it can still be "wrong", can't it? And I have a right to complain about being wronged, don't I? And perhaps even try to do something about it, or keep my friends (that's you, BTW) from suffering the same fate?

[pundit]

It's not uncommon to be charged more for labor if you supply your own parts.
First the shop is making nothing on the parts so they'll often make it up by slugging you extra for fitting them.
It may not be ethical but many businesses do it. They're argument could be that they are in business to supply both parts & labor and if you prevent them making anything on the parts then they may feel quite entitled to make it up on the labor and if you don't like that well....?

Secondly as they can't be sure of the nature of the parts they are being asked to fit, they'll often include some extra 'fat' in the labor quote to cover any unforseen fitment difficulties. This can be considered a more legitmate reason as anyone who has ever given a standard fixed labor quote will tell you after being given faulty or poor quality parts to fit only to have the customer refuse to allow a variation when the job turns into a nightmare.

.5 of an hour may be enough to fit a genuine BMW indicator lamp assembly but if it was an aftermarket Taiwanese unit bought off Ebay, it may not.
On many occasions I have seen fenders requiring holes to be enlongated with a file in order to make a lamp assembly fit. These cheap non-genuine Asian parts were supplied by insurance companies as part of an accident repair. Insurance companies pay based on their own book rate. And guess how much extra time they would allow to make these cheap non-fitting parts fit?
You guessed it... zero!

As for the overall difference in the quotes, well it doesn't matter what kind of book anyone has, if you get half a dozen quotes you'll get up to half a dozen variations. If all the quotes had been identical I would have been surprised.

[Black 535i]

I think that it is sommon sense to say that we should shop around for work that we want done on our cars and we will always get varying prices. I charge varying amounts for my CAD services based on things such as: time, square footage, number drawing sheets, etc. so the dealer can charge what they like and if we don't like it we can go somewhere else. I lose jobs because of my prices sometimes and then make up for it later down the road. An over the phone estimate will NEVER be accurate and to drive around and ask them to price the work is time consuming and unwarranted. Just check out some costs and go with your gut. If you do not like the work after go somewhere else.

This is a continuation of this thread:

http://www.bimmer.info/forum/showthread.php?t=16530

I was really curious about their "book rates", so I decided to call around, just for fun. I called seven different BMW dealerships in the Toronto area, and asked for a labor quote to:

1. Install a windshield wiper drive rod
2. Install two front turn signal lenses
3. Install a new brake light switch

The quotes below reflect ONLY labor. I provided my own parts. Remember, all these dealers are within 30km of each other.

BMW Autohaus
Wiper rod: 2.5 hours
Turn signal lenses: 2.0 hours
Brake switch: 1.0 hours

Budds' BMW
Wiper rod: 3.0 hours
Turn signal lenses: 1.0 hours
Brake switch: 2.0 hours

Town + Country BMW
Wiper rod: 4.0 hours
Turn signal lenses: 0.5 hours
Brake switch: 1.5 hours

BMW of Mississauga
Wiper rod: 0.8 hours
Turn signal lenses: 0.5 hours
Brake switch: 0.5 hours

Maranello BMW
Wiper rod: What the **** is that?
Turn signal lenses: 1.0 hours
Brake switch: 0.6 hours

Parkview BMW
Spoke to a guy who said he'd call back in five. Never did.

BMW Toronto (flagship store)
Spoke to a guy who said he'd call back in five. Never did.

At $107/hr, these differences are substantial. $450 seperates the highest quote from the lowest.

This all started when I got IRATE when one dealership told me they were going to charge me 6 hours' labor for 90 minutes' work, because they go "by the book rate". How, then, can five different BMW dealerships within a half-hour drive of one another give five differing quotes (nevermind the two dealerships who couldn't be bothered returning a customer's call)?

Does anyone have an explanation for what's going on here, besides fraud? I wonder if the press would be interested in my story. No doubt these discrepancies bilk BMW customers out of many thousands of dollars every day.

What the **** is going on here, where is this so-called 'book', and why does it seem like no two dealers use the same one?

[Jay 535i]

Okay, I will let it rest. This is my last post in this thread.

But you guys are still missing my point.

You're saying that rates vary based on the circumstances. That would be fine if the service rep hadn't told me otherwise. She told me that the book is the only variable, and that is clearly not true.

No two CAD jobs are the same, but one brake switch installation is much the same as another. That's why there's a book. If they're using the book only as a guide, they should say so. Had I gone along with them blindly, I would have paid $450 more than at another BMW dealer down the street, and I was never made aware of that fact. On the contrary, I was lead to believe that all dealers would charge me the same. I was lied to for the purpose of extortion, and that is what's unethical and bothersome.

[CheapCheap1]

It's definitely wrong...
May be you should write to BMW-NA & complain about the discrepency on its "book rate" charged by $tealers?

I just wonder how BMW-NA will response...

Perhaps, but it can still be "wrong", can't it? And I have a right to complain about being wronged, don't I? And perhaps even try to do something about it, or keep my friends (that's you, BTW) from suffering the same fate?

[Bill R.]

an example my sister recently built a new house, they acted as their own general contractors and subbed out all the work that they couldn't do. For the block walls for the exterior of the house they got over 10 quotes, the price variation from one mason to another ranged more than 40k dollars to do the same job, same thing with the painting contractors, the only fields that were very close to each other with less than a 10% variation were the electricians and the plumbers. More than 10 quotes for each and they came up within 10% of each other without seeing anybody elses quotes. All other areas on the house had tremendous variations. So its the same with everything , you have to shop around for the best combination of price ,quality,service etc. Dealer are just like anybody else,someones going to push for more money somewhere. Get over it.

Okay, I will let it rest. This is my last post in this thread.

But you guys are still missing my point.

You're saying that rates vary based on the circumstances. That would be fine if the service rep hadn't told me otherwise. She told me that the book is the only variable, and that is clearly not true.

No two CAD jobs are the same, but one brake switch installation is much the same as another. That's why there's a book. If they're using the book only as a guide, they should say so. Had I gone along with them blindly, I would have paid $450 more than at another BMW dealer down the street, and I was never made aware of that fact. On the contrary, I was lead to believe that all dealers would charge me the same. I was lied to for the purpose of extortion, and that is what's unethical and bothersome.