Does Changing Lifetime Fluid Kill Transmissions?

[Cambridge]

Cambridge- I've really appreciated this poll on changing tranny fluid. As you may know, I also have a '94 540i. It just rolled over 100k last night! So I've driven the car now for ~1500 mi and I still get awful hard shifts, 2nd to 3rd, at moderate speeds when the engine is warm. From talking to Tiger, it sounds like I probably need to have a valve body rebuild done. Whether I do that now or later, I think I definitely need to at least change the fluid and filter (maybe o-rings too) now.

As the "designer/moderator" of this thread, I'm wondering what you've decided to do on your 540i tranny. Did you go ahead and put in the Penzoil MVATF as you said? Any follow-up you can provide would be helpful

I'm leaning toward changing the filter and o-rings along with whatever fluid happens to be in the pan. I'm leaning toward the MVATF. I haven't done the work yet, but figure I will before the winter's over.

I guess I'm just building up my courage... Some have claimed some pretty awful horror stories when they changed their fluid after 100,000mi (e.g. valve body fills with crud, clutch friction pad adhesive melts, etc, etc). I'm developing an opinion that these stories may be the exceptions rather than the rule. From our "very scientific" informal poll I'm seeing only a 13 percent failure rate. It seems ZF builds a pretty solid tranny that lasts with proper care.

As for the MVATF, IMHO I feel it will do as nicely as the Shell LA2634. I don't think it's that hard to make a modern semi-synthetic that will compete with the 13+ year old Shell fluid. Originally the tech data printed by Pennzoil showed it being a replacment for the Shell fluid ... and then they stopped showing the third page. I'd guess there is some game being played by the lawyers & accountants on this one. Nor do I expect ZF to certify any and all new fluids for a 13+ year old tranny; They've moved on to other things I'm sure.

Anyway, that's what is rolling through my brain right now. Am I ? I guess it all gets down to what level of risk you're willing to assume.

[632 Regal]

dude, whatever you do use the recommended fluid! If you want to play pin the tail on the yoda use whatever you want.

If you are going to do it why wouldnt you want to use what is supposed to be used since it has traveled this far?

I believe Bill r posted a chart of the correct fluids and yours is the shell fluid. The problem with other fluids is it isnt compatible with the glue that is used to hold the friction material to the steel plate resultung in a breakdown and failure.

shoot dude why not use the ATF crap at the local 7-11?

Im done with the facts, you chose your own poisen, I wish you luck in whatever you choose.

[Tiger]

Just do it... 13% failure is tiny. I am one of the, if not, the first to use Pennzoil MV ATF. No problem still and this is after 1.5 years so why are you so worried? If you use the wrong fluid or incompatilble one... it will crap your tranny right away... not after long use.

Hey I would use 7/11 crap if it was cheap!

[Cambridge]

dude, whatever you do use the recommended fluid! If you want to play pin the tail on the yoda use whatever you want.

If you are going to do it why wouldnt you want to use what is supposed to be used since it has traveled this far?

I believe Bill r posted a chart of the correct fluids and yours is the shell fluid. The problem with other fluids is it isnt compatible with the glue that is used to hold the friction material to the steel plate resultung in a breakdown and failure.

shoot dude why not use the ATF crap at the local 7-11?

Im done with the facts, you chose your own poisen, I wish you luck in whatever you choose.

Yes, ZF spec's the LA2634 for my tranny. I wonder whether it's as good as the MVATF.

[grave77]

as they said you can do it ... just make sure u run the fluid few times with the pan open so you would clean the valve body before you seal the pan ... that saves the tranny from the 13% failure ...

[CheapCheap1]

Very good discussion & informative...!!!

I'll have to drain & re-fill tranny juice (& rear diff. oil) for my '95 540i/A, original Nikky block (68K miles). However, I'm leaning toward Shell-LA2634 (& Mobil1 75W-90)...yeah, it'll punch a hole in my wallet !!!

*********************
Anyway, I also need some advice...(Sorry, doesn't mean to hi-jack the thread).

My '95 540i/Auto is currently having a funny shift. When I shifted it from a regular driving (about 5-10 miles, in a "stop & go" traffic in the city) to a reverse, it's "pause" about 1-2 secs and then the tranny fully shifted into the reverse.

Well, could you pls let me know is this a symptom of a "clogged" filter or a "valve body" starts going south ???

[Cambridge]

as they said you can do it ... just make sure u run the fluid few times with the pan open so you would clean the valve body before you seal the pan ... that saves the tranny from the 13% failure ...

When you say "run the fluid a few times with the pan open..." I don't quite understand. Do you mean run the engine? When you say with the "pan open," do you mean with the pan off the tranny?

[632 Regal]

time to change the filter and fluid that comes out. If you have LSD (posi) you need the synthetic 140wt dope.

[Cambridge]

dude, whatever you do use the recommended fluid! If you want to play pin the tail on the yoda use whatever you want.

If you are going to do it why wouldnt you want to use what is supposed to be used since it has traveled this far?

I believe Bill r posted a chart of the correct fluids and yours is the shell fluid. The problem with other fluids is it isnt compatible with the glue that is used to hold the friction material to the steel plate resultung in a breakdown and failure.

shoot dude why not use the ATF crap at the local 7-11?

Im done with the facts, you chose your own poisen, I wish you luck in whatever you choose.

Some seem to be doing well with the Pennzoil MVATF. Here's an interesting thread: 20,000 miles on Pennzoil Multi-Vehicle ATF and still ticking

[Cambridge]

I noted the following posts

"Redline tech support recommends their D4 synthetic ATF as a replacement for the Shell 2634, without reservation. ...and the D4 is newer technology......"

"Redline DT-4 claims to be compatible with the 5HP30 Tranny. And Shell claims that Penzoil multi-vehicle ATF meets all the same standards as their LA2634. However, ZF only recognizes the Shell as being compatible with their Tranny."

"I have to say while the Redline D4 ATF offered some excellent shift characteristics (buttery smooth), there was one or two very hard shifts that spooked me into putting in Pennzoil Multi-Vehicle ATF (MVATF) instead. According to the Pennzoil reps, the MVATF is the exact same formulation as the Shell 2634, its just a marketing game. At any rate, I had 4,000 miles on the D4 ATF before switching to the MVATF and now have a total of 12,000 miles on an alternate fluid that has not caused me one problem. When you do change your fluid, make sure you get an OEM O-ring as the aftermarket filter kits supply a slightly thinner O-ring which causes the tranny oil pump to suck air past it causing the infamous "tranny whine." The Pennzoil MVATF is about $3 a quart at Kragen's. I used 8 quarts last time."

The Nov 2005 Roundel p. 124 Tech Talk "... I have been recommending Red Line oil since I started writing for magazines in 1988. Red Line Oil is a privately-held company that runs a teeny-tiny refinery in California - no small feat, I'm sure, due to all the grass-eaters out there. Red Line doesn't compete with Big Oil, it has no designs on becomming "factory fill," so there's no need to jump through API rating hoops, and it is not sold at Wal-Mart, so it can use the best stuff - and charge for it. You can bet that if Red Line is ever taken over by Big Oil, it will be for the purpose of shutting it down or dumbing down the product - a victim of its own success, kind of like Speedvision."

Here is an interesting thread regarding the use of Penzoil multi-vehicle ATF in 5hp30's from 18 months ago Penzoil MVATF

Here is a pdf showing the Penzoil MVATF compatibility with Shell LA2634 Penzoil MVATF compatibility chart

Here's some information from a company in Australia named "Penrite" Penrite ATF

I'm told these folks offer the Shell LA2634 at about half BMW's price LA2634 supplier You may need to use the ZF part number 0671 090 149. This is for a 20 liter container which is good for two changes.

Here's a letter that has been posted around the web that shows Valvoline supporting MERCON V as a replacement for LA2634:

THOMAS R. SMITH
Technical Director, Valvoline Brand
June 7, 2004

To Whom It May Concern:

Valvoline has received several inquiries regarding the topic of MERCON V ATF and its use in various vehicles beyond those requiring DEXRON-III, MERCON, or MERCON V approved products. In response to these questions Valvoline has issued the following statements:

Valvoline supports the use of MERCON V ATF in a broad range of transmissions beyond those requiring DEXRON-III, MERCON, and MERCON V fluids including those where the following fluids are recommended:

o GM DEXRON II
o Allison C-4
o Chrysler ATF+3 or ATF+4 fluids
o Toyota (and Lexus) Type T, T-III or T-IV fluids
o Mitsubishi Diamond SP-II or SP-III fluids
o Hyundai
o Honda ATF-Z1 fluid (except in CVTs)
o BMW LT71141 or LA2634 fluids
o Nissan Matic-D, Matic-J, or Matic-K fluids

MaxLife ATF is recommended for the new 5 and 6 speed transmissions, except the Ford 5R110, Ford 6RXX, and the Mercedes Benz W7A700 (7G-TRONIC) which all require a low viscosity Automatic Transmission Fluid.

Valvoline has conducted in-house testing to support MERCON V ATF performance in these transmissions. However, it is important to note that these vehicle manufacturers have neither evaluated nor approved MERCON V ATF.

Valvoline stands behind all of its products, including MERCON V ATF. Use of MERCON V ATF in transmissions where recommended by Valvoline WILL NOT void the vehicle’s warranty. In the unlikely event that any transmission was to be damaged as a result of the use of MERCON V ATF,
please contact Valvoline at 1-800-Team-VAL.

Valvoline does not recommend MaxLife ATF for use in continuously variable transmissions (CVT’s) or in automatic transmissions where Ford Type F is recommended.


Sincerely,
Thom Smith
Technical Director
Valvoline Brand