Possible Headgasket problem; need help!

I just changed my oil today at my ususal 3000 mile interval and noticed a frothy brownish reddish color bunch of bubbles sitting on top of the oil that I had just taken out of the car. The BMW 525i had just turned 162,000 miles and has been running just fine. I checked the E34 website re: headgasket problems but the site mentioned a whitish color residue that would be on the oil cap or dipstick. I didn't see any of that. However, I did notice that my coolannt level was down in the radiator and I refilled that with a 50/50 mix of BMW coolant and water. Here are my questions:

1. How can I know for sure whether I have a headgasket problem?

2. If it is not a headgasket, what else could it be?

3. If it is a headgasket how long and how bad is this job? Should I tackle
it myself or take it to a mechanic? What is the approximate cost?

Any and all help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks guys.


Best regards,

Al Gray

is this a newer car for you? maybe the oil is flushing off old sludge and crap into the oil? Were there any additives in the old oil?

No, I have had the car for three years now. The last 3 or 4 oil changes I have used Valvoline Durablend 10W 40, a part synthetic and part regualr oil. I am not sure whether that has any effect. The fact that I had to replace some coolant could be another problem. The water pump and thermostat were recently replaced as well as all the belts. I do not have any radiator themp. problems.

much unnecessary deliberation about my own head gasket, there is only one definitive way to tell, IMHO. (the coolant chemical tester is too hit or miss for me). winfred suggested using a compression gauge spark plug adaptor hooked to an air compressor. you might want to ask him for the pressure, i don't know it. if it is breached, you will be able to make bubbles in the rad overflow tank. was the volume of the oil more than it usually is? could it just be crap in the collection container maybe?

based upon mileage and your description sounds like your headgasket is gone if your coolant level is down and you suspect coolant in your oil sump. Hard for your engine oil to be contaminated other than coolant...particularly if you know what has been in the engine in the last while. Changing a head gasket is for the skilled home mechanic or a pro. If you don't fall in this category it would be best left to a pro. Typical replacment cost with a valve job is probably $1500-$1800 and more for a vanos M50.
Good Luck,
George

suggest that if you think there's foreign particulate in there, that you save the oil and not dispose of it yet. if you know somebody that's a chemist, or you have a chemistry background (gen chem II or organic I) there's a test you can run on oil to see if there is EG in it. most commonly used for antifreeze in wine testing (like the simpsons episode), it can detect it fairly well if you try to scoop the CONTAMINATED (not the most oil concentrated section ) oil up. this wouldn't have helped me 'cause all of it was going out the tailpipe in my situation, but if i knew about it then, i'd have run it for $hits and giggles.

take
NaIO4 Sodium Periodate Meth --granules(roughly 4.02 g and mix with 2L water)

MBTH Hydrochloride
specifically--MBTH 3-methyl 2-benzothiazoline hydrazone hydrochloride hydrate
at about 97%
, mix with another 2L of water

take 1 ml of the oil and dump it into a test tube with

6 ml NaIO4

and 3 ml mbth


shake like polaroid pik-tur (bleh)


within 10 seconds, if it turns blue, there's eth glycol in it :^(

any other color is negative..

if this isn't practical, just send some of the oil off for an oil analysis (overnight if u like) and find out for about $26 plus shipping.

Ryan what are you into over there?

oh, fergot to give an estimate of costs......for yer m50, it would cost about $1000 most psuedo-indy places (indy significantly more, BMW about $3500) for headgasket only.....i don't even know how much valve job goes for....most of the places that i could get to agree to test the head (for a reasonable 50-75 dollars) wouldn't touch the DOHC stuff to take apart, and many places don't wanna touch BMW stuff without you laying down a decent chunk of change....apparently special tools that most places don't have are required for disassembling m50 head.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 632 Regal

Ryan what are you into over there?

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not sure what you mean.....my occupation is as an authorized thunderbird/night train reseller :p

Has anyone out there done a headgasket replacement job? I looked at my Bently manual and there are 3 different special BMW toos needed to do the job. I consider myself a skilled home mechanic but I just want to know what I am getting into. Any thoughts or comments would be appreciated.

bout 15 hours (at most) to extricate it, if you have to keep going back and forth to the parts store for tools. if the tool kit you illustrated in your guibo procedure was s significant number, well, you have a few things to buy....i'd say torx bit and socket sets (like 5 ea at autozone), standard and deep between 7mm and 12mm, wrenches of the same size, a special thin wall socket to get the head bolts out. getting the special tools allows you to work directly out of bentley....rental is on the order of 75-100 something, deposit of 750
to koala....you definitely need another vehicle working to pull it off by yourself, if you have gainful employment :p

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Al Gray

Has anyone out there done a headgasket replacement job? I looked at my Bently manual and there are 3 different special BMW toos needed to do the job. I consider myself a skilled home mechanic but I just want to know what I am getting into. Any thoughts or comments would be appreciated.

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the second item on this page is the toolset mentioned

http://www.koalamotorsport.com/mall/toolprice.htm

noooowwww, if you want to work without the tools, which means that you rely on your knowledge of setting the cams by how the engine works, click
on my website here
http://plaza.ufl.edu/rroopnar/35831.htm
for winfred's explanation of how to do it.....ultimately i didn't think i knew enough about the operation of motors to go through with it this way during my stab at it, and heard too many machinists BS about some magical complexity in this head over the m50 as compared to m30 so i didnt have the stones to go beyond the steps where the head is unbolted (literally 45 mins to an hour more of work and i'd have taken it off myself). if you wanna work independently and leave nothing up to chance, rent the tools from koala for 75.

Ryan, thanks for the info. If I do the job myself, what parts do I need and how much is the approximate cost? I know I would need a headgasket set, new exhaust flange nuts and so on. What else would I need?

its up to you whether or not you want to wait for the head to come back from the machinist, but, if its straight (no machining) you can buy the gasket set from bma for about 110 or less, plus about 22 for the head bolts. if you need to buy the gasket (the thicker one), you will have a headgasket useless to you, but a set of all the other gaskets that come along with it. a thicker gasket is like 60 or so....so if you bought the HG set and need the thick one, it would be 110+60, but if you bought all the gaskets separately it would be a little bit more (you need to phone bma, their website is sold out and i don't have anything to work with)...so it might make sense to buy the set no matter what....as far as anything else, no, all of the exhaust header bolts i took out, which are still in my toolkit as spares, are fine, no need to buy new ones. pretty much the only "parts" aside from these are the oil change parts, new antifreeze, carb cleaner....it might make sense to change belts and change spark plugs at the same time if it hasn't been done in a while. i found that in 3 cities, i was able to get somebody who was able to pressure test and level check my m50 head for about 40-50, plus about 30 to clean, plus a little bit more to mill it if necessary, so about 100 for machine shop, so don't take the first (likely exhorbitant) quote for a "bmw" head. tools, et cetera add to costs. plus the cost of your time.

Thanks Ryan. If BMW or a shop wants #1500-1800 to do this job I might consider doing it myself. The cost for parts and tool rental only comes to about $300. The difference represents a significant savings. When you did your headgasket job did you run into any problems? Is it best to take the head to a machine shop and have them check it our to see if it needs milling? How can I accurately determine if I need that type of service? I don't think I am making too much of this job. The Bently manual lists about 36 steps to just remove the head and they do detail the special tools that are needed. I guess I am looking for the confidence to proceed with a job like this. I don't want to get too over my head. Any one else have any comments or experiences?

i would definately take it to a machine shop and checked for straightness. You probably don't have anything straight enough to check it, and if its slightly warped, it'll make you have to do the whole thing again.

think of it as a long stretched out guibo and Cbearing procedure, to the tune of many, many more hours. its not "simple", but if you have an understanding of what it is you are doing, and you have time to execute, its not brain surgery. i don't think you will have a problem finding a shop to do it for 1k though, if that is below the threshold of your doing the job yourself. it makes no sense to do a HG without doing a pressure test on the head, at which time they will check it for straightness. sbcnsu and anton CH have both done it, perhaps some inquiries to them might be helpful....also, i have pics of the steps right up until you need the special tools, which i can send your way if you like (20 mb though).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Al Gray

Thanks Ryan. If BMW or a shop wants #1500-1800 to do this job I might consider doing it myself. The cost for parts and tool rental only comes to about $300. The difference represents a significant savings. When you did your headgasket job did you run into any problems? Is it best to take he head to a machine shop and have them check it our to see if it needs milling? How can I accurately determine if I need that type of service? I don't think I am making too much of this job. The Bently manual lists about 36 steps to just remove the head and they do detail the special tools that are needed. I guess I am looking for the confidence to proceed with a job like this. I don't want to get too over my head. Any one else have any comments or experiences?

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