Finally, M3 Engine Going into 525iT

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06-06-2006, 05:35 PM
gtopaul

Finally, M3 Engine Going into 525iT

It's been a long time coming. The engine and trans have been sitting in the shop for three months just waiting for the engine lifts, rack, and designated technician to become available at the same time. Got my 92 525 Touring in today and we have most of the accessories, intake, radiator, and exhaust off already. We'll drop the engine/trans/suspension as a unit from the bottom tomorrow. The replacement 96 50k mile M52 engine is already bolted to a fresh auto trans and sitting on the floor. Will be using the Touring's M50 exhaust, intake, accessories, and a 95 M3 DME w/Turner Performance chip w/EWS delete to make everything work. The engine harness is from a 94 525 w/vanos. I had to change a bunch of stuff going from an OBDII engine to a OBDI installation. Had to buy new crank sensor, cam sensor, knock sensors, vanos solenoid, valve cover, ignition coils to name just a few. The factory M52 parts had different plug ends that wouldn't work with the earlier harness. It will still look like a factory installation when done. Will take some pics and post once the inevitable bugs are worked out.

Paul L
06-06-2006, 06:33 PM
s_ribbens

S52.

I'm curious to see what you think of that motor in the 5. Mostly because of the extra weight compared to the M3, but intersesting non the less.
06-06-2006, 06:37 PM
Nick.Hay

Sorry, but did you say AUTO trans??

Bummer... Would be heaps more fun with a manual...
06-06-2006, 07:14 PM
Jon K

I am really confused - you're running a '96 motor... which is an S52 on an S50 ecu? Also, the M3 and 325/525 harness do not pin-out correctly if my memory serves right.

K really confused: M52 bolted to an Auto trans? Thats a 2.8L motor... S52 mated to an auto trans? that's blasphemy.
06-06-2006, 07:22 PM
Scott H

Don't listen to these fools Paul....

It's a common swap and you will enjoy all of it! Share when you are done!

Quote:

Originally Posted by gtopaul

It's been a long time coming. The engine and trans have been sitting in the shop for three months just waiting for the engine lifts, rack, and designated technician to become available at the same time. Got my 92 525 Touring in today and we have most of the accessories, intake, radiator, and exhaust off already. We'll drop the engine/trans/suspension as a unit from the bottom tomorrow. The replacement 96 50k mile M52 engine is already bolted to a fresh auto trans and sitting on the floor. Will be using the Touring's M50 exhaust, intake, accessories, and a 95 M3 DME w/Turner Performance chip w/EWS delete to make everything work. The engine harness is from a 94 525 w/vanos. I had to change a bunch of stuff going from an OBDII engine to a OBDI installation. Had to buy new crank sensor, cam sensor, knock sensors, vanos solenoid, valve cover, ignition coils to name just a few. The factory M52 parts had different plug ends that wouldn't work with the earlier harness. It will still look like a factory installation when done. Will take some pics and post once the inevitable bugs are worked out.

Paul L
06-06-2006, 07:31 PM
Jon K

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scott H

It's a common swap and you will enjoy all of it! Share when you are done!

Scott, the M50 vanos harness is not the same as an M3 harness... ask BJL4776 how he knows that :)
06-06-2006, 07:35 PM
Scott H

It can be adapted per

a chicago independent who knows more about swaps than you and any other resource you can find short of Brett Anderson.

Take a seat Jon, you don't know as much as you think.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jon K

Scott, the M50 vanos harness is not the same as an M3 harness... ask BJL4776 how he knows that :)
06-06-2006, 07:45 PM
Jon K

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scott H

a chicago independent who knows more about swaps than you and any other resource you can find short of Brett Anderson.

Take a seat Jon, you don't know as much as you think.

Of course it can be adapted - but it added much confusion to BJL4776's install. Giving him a heads up it won't plug and play. I stand.
06-06-2006, 07:46 PM
Martin in Bellevue

Quote:

Originally Posted by s_ribbens

S52.

I'm curious to see what you think of that motor in the 5. Mostly because of the extra weight compared to the M3, but intersesting non the less.

My 535i 5speed & supacharged m3 convertible both weigh very close to 3,400lbs on the same scale at a local transfer station. M3 manual gearboxes seem pricey & abused when available used, at least around the pacific northwest. The m3 drives like a much lighter car, thanks to the huffer, proper steering rack, & possibly the staggerred wheels.
If this conversion is being done within a budget, I could understand sticking with the autobox.
06-06-2006, 07:48 PM
Jon K

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin in Bellevue

My 535i 5speed & supacharged m3 convertible both weigh very close to 3,400lbs on the same scale at a local transfer station. M3 manual gearboxes seem pricey & abused when available used, at least around the pacific northwest. The m3 drives like a much lighter car, thanks to the huffer, proper steering rack, & possibly the staggerred wheels.
If this conversion is being done within a budget, I could understand sticking with the autobox.

I don't blame him using the auto as a friend up here has bought 2 transmissions for his OBDI converted S52, used but less than 70k miles from a local BMW yard and both failed in less than a month combined. You're right in that M3 manual trans seem to be abused when used - that or maybe its because they're typically pulled from wrecked cars and may be damaged.
06-06-2006, 07:54 PM
Elekta

bastige...

are you using the 5 speed hp18?

Sayther's M532iTm is pretty bitchin and damned fast.

This is very interesting
06-06-2006, 07:57 PM
Jon K

I am still confused as to whether its an S52B32 or M52B28.

Either way - there is only one thing more fun than a S52 powered E34 and that is a Turbo S52 powered E30. Going to be helping out in this one :)

http://voytilla.com/gallery/albums/u...l_P4210271.JPG
06-07-2006, 09:10 AM
Brandon J

The pans and oil pumpneed to be changed too. Come on now, he did very well in doing some research. Would it be easier if he had a M50tu originally, Yes, but they can all be adapted. The M50tu wiring harness IS the correct one to use in this project. And that turbo, I would rather use the twin screw because of how linear the power band is so drivability is better.

However, I do wonder if he said M52 by acident because of thinking ///M instead of S52.

I really like that he did do research and if he does have any questions, he can ask. I know of 1 person from years ago who did the S52 swap into his M50tu e34 and several who did it in their e36s. Can be done and with some good work not as many problem solving moments.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jon K

Of course it can be adapted - but it added much confusion to BJL4776's install. Giving him a heads up it won't plug and play. I stand.
06-07-2006, 09:19 AM
Jon K

The guy doing the S52 turbo E30 is from Philly - he's not too concerned with linear power, more of a drag type person. Either or, should be fun.

Yeah I'd like to know if its an M52 or S52
06-07-2006, 04:42 PM
gtopaul

Update

Geez, I meant S52 not M52. Guess I posted that a little late for me last night. ;-) Anyway, I ran this by Brett Anderson a couple of months ago first to get his pointers. The Touring is my dog hauler and work car. I could care less about a manual trans because I'm way past the age where that's important anymore. Now it's a little power with good AC which makes me happy.

We got the engine out today between servicing our normal clientel (BMW dealership) and drop ins. Everything came out with no problems. Swapped the M3 engine onto the front suspension, added all the accessories back on the front of the engine, new belts too, attached the auto trans lines. New rubber engine mounts and all new vacuum and coolant hoses under the intake while we're there. Added the M3 injectors to the M50 intake. Will be sending out a standard throttle body to get it bored out at some point in the next couple of months when everything is running. I'll be using a set of stock 95 M3 coils for now (purchased off ebay). Everything is bolting up correctly and with no problems yet. Should have it installed tomorrow and maybe an outside shot at cranking it if it's ready. The research I've done shows the Touring rear end ratio to be almost the same as an automatic M3 so it should be transparent. Once it's driveable maybe a few updates down the road.

Paul
06-07-2006, 04:46 PM
Jon K

What is the touring rear end ratio? I know the manual sedan is 3.23 which is identical to M3
06-07-2006, 04:51 PM
gtopaul

Re: Update

Forgot to mention, of course I changed out the oil pump pickup and oil pan. Won't work unless you do. That blue crank is pretty cool!

Paul
06-07-2006, 06:31 PM
Elekta

My dog hauler needs the same upgrade, only I have the 3.0 v8. Can you still use the 5 speed tranny, or the hp24 or what?

Is this swap more impossible in my engine bay
06-07-2006, 06:48 PM
gtopaul

Touring

Quote:

Originally Posted by 530iTouring

My dog hauler needs the same upgrade, only I have the 3.0 v8. Can you still use the 5 speed tranny, or the hp24 or what?

Is this swap more impossible in my engine bay

I think a 540 swap into your 530 makes way more sense. A lot easier to do too and probably cheaper. I'll have about $5k into this before it's rolling.

I also have a 94 540 so it will be an interesting comparison to see which feels quicker. I know the 540 has more HP but the M3 transplant won't be too far behind.

Paul
06-07-2006, 06:59 PM
Elekta

I wanted my car to be lighter not heavier, but I see where your going.

So which is the tranny you are going to mate to the S52?
06-07-2006, 07:33 PM
Scott H

4.10 open

came out of my 92 525iT/A

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jon K

What is the touring rear end ratio? I know the manual sedan is 3.23 which is identical to M3
06-07-2006, 07:53 PM
Jon K

Mmmm open
06-07-2006, 09:37 PM
Brandon J

Good work and do keep us updated. Isn't the M3 auto tranny the same as the 530i auto? How are you doing the vanos connector or are you using a vanos from a M50tu/S50?

Quote:

Originally Posted by gtopaul

Geez, I meant S52 not M52. Guess I posted that a little late for me last night. ;-) Anyway, I ran this by Brett Anderson a couple of months ago first to get his pointers. The Touring is my dog hauler and work car. I could care less about a manual trans because I'm way past the age where that's important anymore. Now it's a little power with good AC which makes me happy.

We got the engine out today between servicing our normal clientel (BMW dealership) and drop ins. Everything came out with no problems. Swapped the M3 engine onto the front suspension, added all the accessories back on the front of the engine, new belts too, attached the auto trans lines. New rubber engine mounts and all new vacuum and coolant hoses under the intake while we're there. Added the M3 injectors to the M50 intake. Will be sending out a standard throttle body to get it bored out at some point in the next couple of months when everything is running. I'll be using a set of stock 95 M3 coils for now (purchased off ebay). Everything is bolting up correctly and with no problems yet. Should have it installed tomorrow and maybe an outside shot at cranking it if it's ready. The research I've done shows the Touring rear end ratio to be almost the same as an automatic M3 so it should be transparent. Once it's driveable maybe a few updates down the road.

Paul
06-08-2006, 03:48 AM
gtopaul

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brandon J

Good work and do keep us updated. Isn't the M3 auto tranny the same as the 530i auto? How are you doing the vanos connector or are you using a vanos from a M50tu/S50?

Different trans. I'm using the stock 4L30E GM trans with a fresh rebuild by ZF. It should be ok if I don't get too crazy. I used a vanos wiring harness from a 94 525i sedan. I had to change the vanos solenoid on the S52 only because the E36 plug in lead was too short to plug into the E34 harness. Had to get a E34 vanos solenoid just because of the length of the wire.

Paul

PS The S52 uses a steel block so the weight difference between the alloy block V8 and the S52 is minimal.

I just found out the Touring uses the 4.10 rear end but I don't believe that will be a problem for the S52.
06-08-2006, 05:04 AM
ryan roopnarine

i'm really not trying to pee into your cereal here....
but as a 4l30e owner, i just thought i'd pass this on, didn't know you'd be using the 4l30e

http://media.gm.com/division/powertr...2003_4l30e.htm

this is for a 2004 4l30e. 4l30e, as betrayed by its designation, is a gm hydramatic (so gm "makes" it). as it says, the max engine torque is 258 lb*ft. i know that some of the m3 I6s were a little short on torque, but it sounds like maybe you are about to hit the ceiling with what can be done, performance wise, with such a tranny installed. i don't even know if you can chip such an engine when its hooked up to that tranny without getting into a risky situation.

Quote:

Originally Posted by gtopaul

Different trans. I'm using the stock 4L30E GM trans with a fresh rebuild by ZF. It should be ok if I don't get too crazy. I used a vanos wiring harness from a 94 525i sedan. I had to change the vanos solenoid on the S52 only because the E36 plug in lead was too short to plug into the E34 harness. Had to get a E34 vanos solenoid just because of the length of the wire.

Paul

PS The S52 uses a steel block so the weight difference between the alloy block V8 and the S52 is minimal.

I just found out the Touring uses the 4.10 rear end but I don't believe that will be a problem for the S52.
06-08-2006, 05:15 AM
onewhippedpuppy

Few people seem to realize, the S52, as well as many of the other 6s, actually weigh more than the M60. 333 lbs for the S52, vs 321 for the M60.
http://www.bimmerforums.com/engine_faq/
Just thought I'd toss that out, as there has been some discussion of weight on this thread.

Sweet sounding swap, I'm sure it will feel like a different car when you're done. We will, of course, need lots of pictures.:D
06-08-2006, 08:26 AM
Elekta

Quote:

Originally Posted by gtopaul

Different trans. I'm using the stock 4L30E GM trans with a fresh rebuild by ZF. ...

Is that a 5 speed? The touring really loves that 5th gear on long runs to the quail lease
06-08-2006, 03:47 PM
gtopaul

It's in the driveway

Didn't take too long to get things running. Had the fuel lines swapped on the intake to begin with and then the wrong coolant sensors hooked up. Once that was figured out it cranked right up and idles very smooth. Power increase is very noticeable but it's highlighted other weak areas that need addressing. The rear end is clunking now on the first and second shift. I guess it was ok with 187k miles and the original slush box and engine. Probably will have to look for something a little newer (tighter). The trans was giving a bunch of Trans Program lights and going into limp mode at first but I think we traced that down to too much slack in the shifter cable and that seems fixed. Of more immediate concern is the leaking trans fluid which appears to be coming from the circular thing on the side of the trans. Might need a new gasket in there. I haven't dogged it yet but the car has lots more power than the origjnal six (of course), idles smoother, and doesn't seem to mind having the AC compressor on like the original did.

I took a couple of quick pics, before cleanup:

http://members.aol.com/gtopaul/private/525m3001.jpg
http://members.aol.com/gtopaul/private/525m3002.jpg

Looks like a factory installation doesn't it?

Paul
06-08-2006, 04:01 PM
Jon K

Hrm..

OBDI valve cover yet you have M Power trim? So you bought the S50 engine cover? Why didn't you just use the S52 valve cover and coils?
06-08-2006, 04:42 PM
gtopaul

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jon K

Hrm..

OBDI valve cover yet you have M Power trim? So you bought the S50 engine cover? Why didn't you just use the S52 valve cover and coils?

When you change from OBDII to OBDI you use an earlier wiring harness that's not compatible with the S52 coils so you have to use the earlier square coils, which don't fit in the S52 valve cover, hence the change to all earlier stuff.

Paul
06-08-2006, 04:59 PM
Jon K

Where did you get the S50 engine cover?
06-08-2006, 05:54 PM
gtopaul

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jon K

Where did you get the S50 engine cover?

Just ordered it at the dealer.

Paul

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