M60 V8 - Strange noise

[Frank87]

So I am rounding up the few remaining technical jobs on the E34. Once these are complete, it will get a full respray and body rebuild.

My last technical issue, is a strange low pitched whining noise from the engine bay that has been there since I bought the car. The noise sounds like a pump or bearing, anything that spins. Some info on the noise:
- Noise there when accelerating between 600 RPM idle and about 1.500 RPM
- Noise when decellerating and going under 1.500
- Noise sounds like a tired object, it doesnt sound constant like a bearing failing "whoooooooooooooooooooooooooosh" but more like "whooOOOhoooOooooOHoooosh"

I cant film or record it as I can not reproduce it when the car is running idle. Even when I play with the throttle body. However, right after firing up the car, the noise is there for about a second.


Alot of items can be excluded:
- Waterpump, belts, tensioners, idlers all replaced. Belt not too tight. Checked by my capable indy.
- PCV valve replaced
- Autobox and torque converter replaced


I am now making a list of items that can cause noise. So far I have:
- Fan clutch? (Replaced after buying the car but used aftermarket brand)
- Alternator (about to be replaced by one I rebuilt myself)
- Steering pump
- A/C compressor (I am taking off the belt tonight to drive for a week without the A/C on the belt system)
- Any ASC item? I think I have the vacuum operated ASC
- Brake booster? Can this object produce noise?
- Vacuum control system, where can I find its air pump? (saw this on realoem: http://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/showparts?id=HE21-EUR-12-1993-E34-BMW-530i&diagId=11_4953)


My car should not have the pierburg secondary air pump as it is a 12/93. Where can I find this pump? To check if I have it..

The steering box itself does not make noise does it? Would be the pump if it was steering related right?


If anyone has any other suggestion of parts that I can exclude, let me know. I want to have this fixed as I am nearing technical perfection on this car. Oil consumption is about 1 liter per 10.000 kilometer, perfect idle, fuel consumption steady at 10/100, just fitted 4 ATE PowerDisc brake rotors+pads and my home-rebuild gearbox shifts excellent. Gotta nail this noise thing.

[whiskychaser]

As you can't replicate it when you are under the bonnet, a wild stab in the dark - could it be your heater fan or the fan in the heater control unit?

[Frank87]

Forgot to mention this:

Week back I was under the car and someone on the lift started the car. I heard the noise for about 2 seconds and it came from the front of the engine. So anywhere behind the head lamps but in front of the last 4 cilinders, this is the target area where the noise came from.

It is definately coming from the engnie bay.

[632 Regal]

Power steering pump can make that sound. It could be low, should be about 1 inch from the top. If you have the incorrect fluid it can also make noise.

[Frank87]

In theory, I have the incorrect fluid. I should use Pentasin but I am using DIII as it is cheaper. Since I dont have SLS, the Pentasin is not needed for SLS. I have seen people switching to DIII on LuK pumps often without any trouble. Also on E39 and E38 models without sls. Even when I bought the car, there was already DIII in the system.

I just saw 2 hoses in the low pressure area of the steering system that are a little wet and have crappy old hose clamps. I am going to replace those hoses and use new hose clamps. If, for some reason, the system sometimes sucks in a little air, that would explain noise from the pump. Fluid level was never below minimum. I check oil, brake, coolant and steering system each month.

[genphreak]

DIII as it is cheaper. (than what, CHF 7.1)? Just use Pentosin CHF11S- or pretty much any green synthetic transmission fluid. Synthetic trans fluid is barely more than Dexron and will not break down.

Make sure the noise is not an idler or tensioner pulley- I replace these (and the serpentine belts) on all my cars fairly promptly after buying, as it keeps them quieter and they will fail at some point otherwise.

[Clarksonvalley]

Try removing the radiator fan. It has a left hand thread. My 540i makes the same sound and I'm pretty sure the noise is coming from the fan. Let me know the results of the fan removal.

[bennyg]

I bought my 5/93 540i with dex3 in the PS reservoir (owner went f*k-it-cheap-a$$ on negotiated fixes for the rwc). Had it flushed straight away but a flush only gets 3/4 of the fluid apparently. I read somewhere dex3 eats the seals in the Pentosin system. Whether or not that's true, a year later issues with both a leaky ASC and now another year on a whine I'm sure is related to a PS leak that causes my steering to lock under heavy acceleration. I have not had any spare time to do anything about it yet though but hope to soon.

Sent from my GT-I9305 using Tapatalk

[Clarksonvalley]

My 540i whines in 1st gear when it is first started and also when it has warmed up, but then quiets down after about 2000 RPM, but the whine is always there at low RPM. I use Prestone Power Steering fluid. I also have replaced the power steering lines with 'Earl's Superstock' hose from the cooler to pump and reservoir to cooler using 'Earls' threaded fittings. I also brazed threaded fittings onto the cooler tubing - the hose replacement eliminated the leaks I've had for years, but had nothing to do with the whining - just wanted to get rid of the leaks. Anyway, if you think the whine is from the PS pump, remove the serpentine belt and start the engine briefly - removing the belt will also take the alternator and water pump out of operation. Or, remove all of the belts and run the engine briefly. One of the belt driven accessories is causing the whine. Let me know how it turns out.

[Frank87]

Replacing all PS hoses this saturday. I also have some leaky lines in the low perssure area. Now that its cold, the sound is gone so Ill have to wait till spring.

[Clarksonvalley]

About directly below the master brake cylinder there are two tubes attached to the inner body. There are PS hoses connected to either side of these two tubes and secured with hose clamps. This is where my major PS fluid leaks were located - at these four hose clamps. I removed these two tubes and discarded them. My PS hoses now go from the cooler to the reservoir and from the cooler to the pump, thus eliminating the four hose clamps. I eliminated the two hose clamps at the cooler by cutting off the cooler hose barbs and brazing on Earl's threaded hose fittings, thus eliminating two more hose clamps that were leaking. I now have one remaining hose clamp at the PS reservoir. To install the Earl's Superstock hoses, I had to remove the front bumper assembly and the left hand headlight assembly to see what I was doing. A lot of trouble, but the PS fluid leaks were making me nuts.

[Frank87]

Im going to treat exactly the same spot. The 2 connections under the master cylinder, 1 connection to the reservoir and another connection below the middle of the engine head drivers side.

I am going to use better hoses and add multiple hose clamps. Don't have time for any custom work yet. Should hold up for a few years.

[genphreak]

I have the same problem, and the same desire to fix.

Just cleaned the headlight lenses today (wow what a difference), so have the left light cluster out and got to see the oily tangle close up.

Definitely needs addressing as there is CHF11S everywhere. I'm going to see if I can do it by tightening the factory clamps (seldom possible) or by cutting the bad ends off the existing hoses and using new stainless clamps and/or using new hoses. Can't wait to get all that sorted out for once.

[Frank87]

I did the hoses near the reservoir yesterday. One of the hoses is the return hose and connected to a pipe close by. I drained the system, removed the hose and made a custom hose. I bought 3 metres hose from a hydraulics shop that had nylon 12.7 inner diameter hose on stock. They use this type on large archicultural machines and said it can easily take 60 bar. Since it is in the low pressure area anyway, this will do nicely. I made the hose a little bit longer so I have room to play in the future if any leaks appear and so I could put more hose on the pipe. I used new hose clamps and put 2 clamps on the pipe right after each other. 1 clamp on the spot at the reservoir.

Then there's the hose that runs from the steering box to a pipe which then leads to the cooler. I could not replace that hose (box almost unreachable and has banjo fitting) so I unscrewed the clamp, took off the hose, cleaned the pipe and the hose itself.. then put it on the pipe as far as possible (considerably farther then before now) and put on 2 new hose clamps.

Filled up the system, bled the system and drove home. After an hour of driving, I checked under the hood and all still looks nice and clean.


Next job will be the 2 short hoses near the headlight. I will again use the thick hose I bought and cut it up to cover as much distance over the pipes as possible. This will allow me to fit 8 hose clamps. 2+2 and 2+2.
Pump was completely leak free... so is the box..

Once it gets a bit warmer, I'll know if it worked.

[Frank87]

Heres the pics:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v432/PMAngelEyes/E34%20530i%20V8/Stuurslangen/Retourslang%202_zpsplaitzsr.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v432/PMAngelEyes/E34%20530i%20V8/Stuurslangen/Retourslang_zpslbllmqeb.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v432/PMAngelEyes/E34%20530i%20V8/Stuurslangen/koelslang_zps10lgvsaj.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v432/PMAngelEyes/E34%20530i%20V8/Stuurslangen/koelslang%202_zps615lhc3d.jpg


Next week:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v432/PMAngelEyes/E34%20530i%20V8/Stuurslangen/koelerslangen_zpskwttclxn.jpg

[Frank87]

So rounded up the job yesterday by:
- Removing bumper and V8 kidneys
- Removing headlight driver side
- Removing CC motor and bowden cable

I removed the old greasy clamps and cut the 2 short hoses. This gave me the following situation:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v432/PMAngelEyes/E34%20530i%20V8/Stuurslangen/20160206_130208_zps4gmhm62e.jpg

I did not think those pipes would be so close. Took me some effort to put new hoses properly on the pipes. Cut new hoses from the same large hydraulic hose that I used 2 weeks ago. Had to hurry so I did not take time to make pics of the result from this angle. When I got home, I made some pics from the side of the Jesus bolt. This is the result:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v432/PMAngelEyes/E34%20530i%20V8/Stuurslangen/DSCN1749_zpslfa1bzdp.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v432/PMAngelEyes/E34%20530i%20V8/Stuurslangen/DSCN1752_zpsqzn7gazr.jpg

Those 2 nasty hoses are only a finger long. I now put a better hose on and used 8 hose clamps. So thats 2 by 2 and 2 by 2 on less than 10 square cm.

Already did a few hundred km with the car and it is leak/sweat free. You may still see some remains from the drained steering fluid. Gonna check the car next weekend and clean it completely to start fresh with a clean engine bay and get a reliable measurement of fluid loss over the first few months. I think it will remain completely dry as all other systems have already been checked.

[shogun]

Nice documentation, thank you. I also replaced some low pressure power steering and power steering fluid hoses on my E32 750 as well as on the E36 M3 with hydraulic/diesel/fuel/petrol hose which is enforced and can take up to 20 bar pressure, to replace the expensive nd leaking crimped hose with these hoses with hose clamps.
There was even an instruction how to. The New Yersey Chapter, BMWCCA has made a nice pdf file with pics how to repair the power steering return hose on all BMW E36, including the M3, by cutting the crimped hose off the metal pipe and replace it with a suitable hydraulic hose and hose clamps. You can open the file below
http://njbmwcca.org/wp/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/NJBMWCCA_E36_POWER_STEERING_HOSE_Rev0.pdf
More pics here on our repair site, click M3 in the index http://e32b12.blogspot.jp/
there you can see the mess with the leaking original crimped hoses, already did that 3 years ago and all is dry now with normal 20 bar hoses and hose clamps. These are low pressure lines.
Have not tried it on high pressure lines with hose clamps, might be too dangerous, the power steering pump produces max 130-140 bar and the original hoses are designed for 180 bar with a lot of reserve. When I did the high pressure hoses on my E32 750 with a friend who worked in a truck repair shop with special section for hydraulic hoses and crimping presses, we used even 200 bar hoses, as they were available there from the truck and forklift repair business. These hoses we crimped then with the special crimp machine they had in the shop.

[genphreak]

Absolutely great!

I've got the headlight out already, about to drain the reservoir... wish me luck (so I can at least avoid kicking the bottle over once its drained!)..

[Jehu]

I second an imbalanced AC aux fan seated in front of the radiator.. I had this happen and it shook the car when it ran... only odd thing is its Winter and it normally doesn't come on until the temp reaches high enough..

[632 Regal]

I second an imbalanced AC aux fan seated in front of the radiator.. I had this happen and it shook the car when it ran... only odd thing is its Winter and it normally doesn't come on until the temp reaches high enough..

That fan will come on with the AC or recirc button is pressed to remove excess moisture. I have to run either one when it rains or the windshield will never clear up and discovered the fan comes on.

[genphreak]

I bought my 5/93 540i with dex3 in the PS reservoir (owner went f*k-it-cheap-a$$ on negotiated fixes for the rwc). Had it flushed straight away but a flush only gets 3/4 of the fluid apparently. I read somewhere dex3 eats the seals in the Pentosin system. Whether or not that's true, a year later issues with both a leaky ASC and now another year on a whine I'm sure is related to a PS leak that causes my steering to lock under heavy acceleration. I have not had any spare time to do anything about it yet though but hope to soon

We had a '95 Touring with this setup, variotronic steering and self leveling suspension all running off the PS pump. It ran on Pentosin CHF11S, and some bozo had added a lot of Dexron at some point. I drained and refilled, but it went red as the two SLS bombs retained enough fluid to pollute the light green Pentosin. At worst that meant 20% Dexron III and I ran it like that for years with no failures. I doubt very much your steering locking is anything to do with the fluid. Is your serpentine belt tensioner working properly and/or is your pump worn out internally as some do. At some point find a new one from a wrecked 540i and swap it over to see...

[632 Regal]

We had a '95 Touring with this setup, variotronic steering and self leveling suspension all running off the PS pump. It ran on Pentosin CHF11S, and some bozo had added a lot of Dexron at some point. I drained and refilled, but it went red as the two SLS bombs retained enough fluid to pollute the light green Pentosin. At worst that meant 20% Dexron III and I ran it like that for years with no failures. I doubt very much your steering locking is anything to do with the fluid. Is your serpentine belt tensioner working properly and/or is your pump worn out internally as some do. At some point find a new one from a wrecked 540i and swap it over to see...

On my 94 after replacing the belt with a brand new Conti it would lock on sharp turns. Very dangerous. I never replaced the belt and drove it forever like that. A different new belt should have taken care of that problem.

[Frank87]

Update:

Alternator replaced for a rebuilt one. So far, the noise is gone. Have never heard it again. I guess it was a noisy alternator bearing. Spinning the pulley by hand also gave a bad bearing noise. It was really on its way out.