1997 528 sputters on start up

[vping]

I know this has been covered but I've searched the forums and found some info on this but might have missed the specifics for my year. When I start my car in the morning, it sputters and after about 15 seconds, its fine. Car drives normally after that too. Each morning it does it and when I leave work in the afternoon it does it.

I've seen some threads but typically the offered solutions are for 1998 and up. What I've read is that the Vanos needs replacing. What I did not read is whether or not, my car has the vanos. I know there are some with two, some with one and the other problem I read is that the valve cover gasket might need replacing.

So my questions are:

Does the 1997 have a vanos?
If so one or two?
If none, is my problem most likely the valve cover gasket?

Cheers,
Vince

BTW - I noticed tonight on start up that the car sputtered less and it was warmer that is has been since this started (which was only about a week ago)
VWP

[genphreak]

I know this has been covered but I've searched the forums and found some info on this but might have missed the specifics for my year. When I start my car in the morning, it sputters and after about 15 seconds, its fine. Car drives normally after that too. Each morning it does it and when I leave work in the afternoon it does it.

I've seen some threads but typically the offered solutions are for 1998 and up. What I've read is that the Vanos needs replacing. What I did not read is whether or not, my car has the vanos. I know there are some with two, some with one and the other problem I read is that the valve cover gasket might need replacing.

So my questions are:

Does the 1997 have a vanos?
If so one or two?
If none, is my problem most likely the valve cover gasket?

Cheers,
Vince

BTW - I noticed tonight on start up that the car sputtered less and it was warmer that is has been since this started (which was only about a week ago)
VWP

Yours will have a single VANOS engine, M52B28.
The gasket cover may need replacing if someone has opened it previously and not replaced the gasket.
Perhaps check the engine temp sensors aew in range- particularly the temp sensors. Cheap and easy to replace if so.
Like all engines, M52s have a few hoses connecting to the intake manifold that perish with age. You will need to inspect and verify each one is not leaking/healthy.

[shogun]

1997 E39 I selected June, as you did not indicate any VIN. Turns out to be a M52B28 and that has single Vanos as our expert from Australia knows by heart without looking into the ETK
Cylinder Head Vanos BMW 5' E39, 528i (M52) (http://bmwfans.info/parts/catalog/E39/Sedan/USA/528i-M52/LHD/A/1997/june/browse/engine/cylinder_head_vanos/)
check the air pump for vacuum control, that runs only a short time when engine is started cold
Air pump f vacuum control BMW 5' E39, 528i (M52) (http://bmwfans.info/parts/catalog/E39/Sedan/USA/528i-M52/LHD/A/1997/june/browse/engine/air_pump_f_vacuum_control-2/)
the hoses looked on my 02/98 E36 M3 also good, but during starting with cold engine there came this Vanos chatter and idle was not very good. I checked the air pump and the check valve, as these are often the problem, then I found out that the hoses were old and brittle and had cracks. Replaced them with silicone hoses from the next car accessory shop and the problem was gone. I even bought a Vanos repair kit for single Vanos with the tools from Beisan Systems, no longer needed.
Dual vanos came 1999, the base of this engine is the same for your car and my M3 which has the S52USB32
BMW M52 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_M52)

[genphreak]

1997 E39 I selected June, as you did not indicate any VIN. Turns out to be a M52B28 and that has single Vanos as our expert from Australia knows by heart without looking into the ETK
Cylinder Head Vanos BMW 5' E39, 528i (M52) (http://bmwfans.info/parts/catalog/E39/Sedan/USA/528i-M52/LHD/A/1997/june/browse/engine/cylinder_head_vanos/)
check the air pump for vacuum control, that runs only a short time when engine is started cold
Air pump f vacuum control BMW 5' E39, 528i (M52) (http://bmwfans.info/parts/catalog/E39/Sedan/USA/528i-M52/LHD/A/1997/june/browse/engine/air_pump_f_vacuum_control-2/)
the hoses looked on my 02/98 E36 M3 also good, but during starting with cold engine there came this Vanos chatter and idle was not very good. I checked the air pump and the check valve, as these are often the problem, then I found out that the hoses were old and brittle and had cracks. Replaced them with silicone hoses from the next car accessory shop and the problem was gone. I even bought a Vanos repair kit for single Vanos with the tools from Beisan Systems, no longer needed.
Dual vanos came 1999, the base of this engine is the same for your car and my M3 which has the S52USB32
BMW M52 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_M52)

Ahhhh... with links, the world becomes complete. Shogun, you put my expertise to shame as usual. One of my neighbors has a 97 523i I fixed the window switch on. Noticed the engine was an M52B25 single vanos so others must be the same as I do know they only did the double vanos on those later models in 99. So that hardly makes me an expert like our Dear Big Brother (or anyone 'using' Google), LOL.

Let us know how you go fixing her up vping, if you can take pics of what seems to be the problem once you've found something!

[vping]

vin#WBADD6323VBW13292

More questions.

Is the valve valve cover gasket ruled out?

So it looks the quick check would be to address the hosed on the air pump and make sure the pump is functioning properly.

Q: Can I use off the shelf hoses or should I order special?

Next if the airpump does not do it, I'll tackle the vanos.

Q: Where is the best place to get the kit?

Lastly, is it bad to drive the car until I can fix it? It has been running great other than the start up chatter.

I'll certainly document and take pics for all to review.

[genphreak]

vin#WBADD6323VBW13292
Is the valve valve cover gasket ruled out?
No, but on your car, it is not the most likely culprit by a long way. Anything that seals the intake side of the engine can introduce air. However how an air leak can cause chatter I do not know. Sputter, I do. What is the problem exactly?

So it looks the quick check would be to address the hosed on the air pump and make sure the pump is functioning properly.

Check your oil cap for a good smooth seal first- as well as oil dipstick o-rings- obvious stuff I know but...

To check for a hidden vacuum leak, start the engine and run it at idle- with the oil cap removed. Blow cigarette smoke (or incense smoke if you prefer) all around the intake side until you see it come up from the oil cap hole, or you are satisfied enough with your checks.

Q: Can I use off the shelf hoses or should I order special?

As long as they are heat and oil resistant, and the right size, yes. They won't last as long, so keep an eye on them for perishing/loosening.

Next if the airpump does not do it, I'll tackle the vanos.

Q: Where is the best place to get the kit?

http://www.beisansystems.com/ (http://www.beisansystems.com/) I think.

Lastly, is it bad to drive the car until I can fix it? It has been running great other than the start up chatter.

I doubt it, but it may use more fuel- how is the economy at the moment?

I'll certainly document and take pics for all to review.

Well Just tell us what you find and do... and complete your thread.

BTW:There are many places where these things are documented already. This is the best;Detailed DIY for CVV Overhaul for the M52TU Motor (http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?1528460-Detailed-DIY-for-CVV-Overhaul-for-the-M52TU-Motor)

... if it is your air pump and you want to cheapskate it, you can even get a little more life from your pump like this:
1998 528i S.A.S. Pierburg Air Pump Maintenance and Rebuild Info (http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?1320200-1998-528i-S-A-S-Pierburg-Air-Pump-Maintenance-and-Rebuild-Info)

[vping]

The exact problem is that when I start the car in the morning, it idles like crap for about 20 seconds, almost like it wants to die. I cannot give it gas or it might stall. After about 20 seconds or so she runs perfectly.

Funny you ask about the oil cap. I checked that and the dipstick. All seal fine although i did not look at the o ring on the dipstick.

I'll need to start smoking if you want me to light up a cig. :-) I like the idea behind the test.

The fuel economy seems pretty good for a 16 yo car.

[miliue]

In a different direction, my car was doing something similar to yours and it turned out to be a failing MAF. Rough idle when starting up in the morning/after work. Lots of hesitation/low power/threatening to stall until the engine warmed up. I replaced the MAF yesterday and it now drives like a champ. It's an expensive sensor but if you've ruled everything else out, you might consider it. Or at least consider taking the MAF out and cleaning it with some MAF cleaner from your local auto store. I have a different motor than you (M60b30) but I would imagine MAF symptoms are the same across motors.

[genphreak]

@milue:

Just beware, different MAFs or perhaps just changing them can change the feed signal that the ECU has learned to live with. I recently changed one on my M50 (when it is probably my o2 sensor causing all the running at normal operating temperature troubles) and it ran great.

Then after a tank of fuel or so the troubles returned.

There are many sensors, in my experience one really needs to replace the O2 sensor and engine temp sensor every 100,000km and check things like MAFs if they are known. Else you have to remove and test them when you get running problems...

[vping]

So I checked the air pump and the hoses seem ok. A little worn but not cracked. I will replace.

I decided to check the MAF and clean it out. Not sure how to tell if it is working correctly but it's now clean.

The car still has the same symptoms.

Things to note:

Noticeable hiss under the intake manifold.
Clutch fan can be stopped at idle with my finger.

I have video of each but not sure how to post from my phone to the forum.

Also realized I have a KAL 9620 OBD II scan tool. I hooked it up and the only code I threw was:
P0740 MOD$18 1 of 1
TCC Circuit Malfunction

[genphreak]

I'd look for the source of the hiss; do the smoke test.

Better to test the fan with a pencil. If it breaks its good. If it stops the fan, the car will get hot in traffic/overheat.

You don't want to have it do that ($$$); replace.

[vping]

Ok First things first. The next day I stopped for breakfast for a quick sandwhich. No more that a 5 minute stop. About 5 minutes after I left the deli, the needle started to move so pulled over and shut down. Waited a few minutes, fired it up and then made it to work with no problems. Later that night, drove the whole way home with no issues. I ordered a clutch for the fan and already had the radiator and overflow tank. First thing Saturday I'll replace all.

Once I do this I'll get back to my regularly scheduled program and figure out why it runs rough at initial start up in the morning.