E36 control arms, are E30 able to be used instead?

[jim123]

Hey, first time i've tried this. i have just replaced the control arms and bushes on my E36 (1995 signature). After seeing the price of new control arms ($350 + $90 for second ball joint) i was told the geometry on the E30 control arm is the same. No floating ball joint on the outer, but i couldn't find what difference that was anyway. i seem to be having some problems getting an alignment. The place where i got the alignment done is saying my rack is in need of repair, my mechanic (who was working for BMW so he knows his stuff) says there is nothing wrong with anything but the alignment. He doesn't know (cos BMW would never use E30 parts in a E36) if the parts are compatible. does anyone know if these parts can be used, or have i got to spend another $900.

[shogun]

google found these threads
e30 vs e36 control arm - e30tech.com Forums (http://www.e30tech.com/forum/showthread.php?t=95744)
E30 control arm vs. E36 M3 control arm question - BMW M3 Forum.com (E30 M3 | E36 M3 | E46 M3 | E92 M3 | F80/X) (http://m3forum.net/m3forum/showthread.php?t=323749)

96-99 M3's have different geometry, but all other e36 are the same.
will E36 front control arms fit E30? answers asap plz - Bimmerforums - The Ultimate BMW Forum (http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1258172)
e36 M3 Control Arms Compatible to e30 Control Arms - Bimmerforums - The Ultimate BMW Forum (http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1569385)
E30 Lower Control Arms / Balljoints into E36 (http://forums.eurocca.net/showthread.php/39330-E30-Lower-Control-Arms-Balljoints-into-E36)
$100 e36 m3 Control Arm Solution

Parts Needed:
1. Used '96+ e36 m3 control arms. These can be had for free from your local BMW stealeship's scrap bin.
2. e30 Ball Joints. All four cost well under $100, even for Lemforder brand.
Affordable e36 m3 Control Arms DIY - R3VLimited Forums (http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/showthread.php?t=139416)

http://www.treehouseracing.com/new/

[jim123]

Thank you. I also found the answer to my Q about the difference in the floating b joint. Its a rubber joint instead of a plastic one, giving smoother handling, im sure i will cope with it being a little more stiff.

[shogun]

let us know, how it works, pics would be appreciated, I also have an E36 M3 1998/02 M3 US specification

[jim123]

Will do. I have to wait for the new guy to get his camera fixed. im pissed off that Beaurepaires at 113 Breakfast creek Road newstead qld, i took the car back to them saying that something was wrong, they did a second test and said the alignment was fine, it was the rak that was damaged. Both the mechanic and the alignment guy said they could see it wasnt right. $68 down the toilet. Sounds like you really know whats going on with these cars. Thanks again.

[shogun]

more info
E36 M3 Control Arm Ball Joint Replacement with E30

E36 M3 Control Arm Ball Joint Replacement with E30 - Bimmerforums - The Ultimate BMW Forum (http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1545037)

car - 97 m3 sedan. genuine BMW stamps all over the various parts of the arm.
31 12 1 126 254 x2 small one
31 12 1 126 253 x2 tall one

or

31 12 1 126 254 outers and
0133-1626314 inners, all Lemforder

Only the e30 balljoints fit in the e36 m3 arms.

31 12 1 126 254
31 12 1 126 253

That's it, those are the part numbers. Order from autohausaz or call any bmw parts supplier and talk to him on the phone with those numbers.

Also Non-M control arms are different and use a larger outer ball joint.
-----------
That thread adds always new info, so better check latest status

[jim123]

Thanks for the info, i'm not sure if the info is relevant to my car. i have a 1995 e36, i believe its an m43 or m40. I'm still waiting for the guy to get his equipment repaired so he can do my alignment again. The ball joints and control arms are installed, along with new bushes. i do have to get the suspension replaced, however my mech says they arn't contributing to the problem....yet. It's a little unstable and the return for the steering wheel isnt functioning very well at all. Im still trying to get pics onto my computer so you can see the car. thanks again, its all good information.

[shogun]

to find out which engine you have and all options the car was originally ordered, use the last 7 numbers of your car VIN here and you get all the details
BMWVin.com (http://bmwvin.com/)
Enter last 7 characters of your BMW VIN, our VIN decoding service will analyze your vehicle's serial number and generate a report that describes the information the VIN contains. This VIN decoder can extract such information as : year, make, model, trim, engine, transmission,manufacturer, country of origin and options.

Also when you want to know if a part was also used in other BMW odels, use RealOEM.com Online BMW Parts Catalog (http://www.realoem.com) and search by the VIn for the correct part number you need, then return to page one of realoem and use that p/n and paste it into search by part number and all BMW which use that number will pop up. That is fr example good when you want to check for used parts.
As I live in Japan and prices are also as high as in Australia for the parts, I buy a lot from USA, even with shipping cost it is still cheaper than here.
But as you have RHD drive, be careful with parts numbers, also a lot of other parts will not fit your AUS spec RHD BMW, as they are USA spec cars. Some links
USA
Auto Parts at AutohausAZ - OEM Auto Parts - Discount Replacement Parts, Resources and Car Care Tips (http://www.autohausaz.com/)
BMA Auto Parts | Bumper to Bumper since 1978 | Oem auto parts, vw parts, sachs boge, mercedes benz parts, honda auto parts, saab parts (http://www.bmaparts.com/)
Pelican Parts - Porsche Parts & BMW Parts - Automotive Parts and Accessories - Porsche & BMW (http://www.pelicanparts.com/)
all of them ship overseas, use or select in their online order forum USPS priority parcel or something like that, USPS takes a bit lomger than FEDEX or DHL but is much cheaper.

U.K.
CAR PARTS from Mister Auto - Your Parts at discount prices (http://www.mister-auto.co.uk/en/)
Cheap Bmw Car Parts From 247 Spares Save Up To 80% NOW (http://www.247spares.co.uk/bmw)
BMW Car Parts, Spares, Accessories, Motormec, UK (http://www.motormec.co.uk/)
BMW Parts From BMW Parts Online (http://www.bmwpartsonline.co.uk/)

there are of course more, just some listed here.

[jim123]

Thanks again, the engine type is a M43. All the info you gave will be useful to me. i didnt think of the rhd, that could have been a costly mistake. i get most of my parts from imparts. i live in Brisbane city, and imparts are fairly close. They also have the best prices i have found. Some parts they sell there new are better prices than the wreckers are offering for 2nd hand prices. Cant blame people for trying to make a dollar, however, now that i have found imparts, i never go to the wreckers anymore.

[jim123]

Hey Shogun, finally i got the alignment done. The guy was great, he explained what he did, and gave me a few pointers on what to check if things arnt right. he did change the tire pressure away from what the specs said. but im just happy to have my nice ride back again. I'm sorry i still have no pics for you yet. They will come, i'm having problems with my phones connection to my computer. Thanks again for all your help.

[shogun]

congrats and thanks for the feedback. I am not in a hurry, but it would be nice if you can post pics later and details how you did it+ details in your car, built year etc, as for the others not that much involved and us two it is quite confusing what fits where and which parts numbers you finally used.

When I have to replace the ball joints on my 1998 M3, I will use the E30 version as mentioned above, that is what I found on the internet.

[jim123]

Hey shogun, Jim again. I have another q for you. my trip meter and odometer have gone blank. i was told it was a common problem in bmw, it was on and off for a while, now it doesnt come on at all. The service lights still work. Do i have to replace the whole thing, or is there a way to fix it?

[shogun]

Do you see any numbers when you shine with a flashlight (in OZ you say torch) on it? If so, maybe just the bulbs are defective or have bad contact
Pelican Technical Article: Replacing BMW Gauge Cluster Light Bulbs (http://www.pelicanparts.com/bmw/techarticles/101-Projects-90-Gauges/101-Projects-90-Gauges.htm)
Z3 Odometer light fading - Bimmerfest - BMW Forums (http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=92544&highlight=bulbs)
Remove and replace the tan-based bulbs with a screwdriver.
BMW e36 3 series replace instrument panel light bulbs gauge cluster DIY - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hYJNzl3eAL8)
Insert the key into the ignition and turn it so you can rotate the steering wheel. Make sure that your battery is disconnected—if you turn on the ignition with the gauge cluster disconnected, the air bag computer will sense a fault and will trigger the air bag warning lamp which can only be reset by a special tool, which I have on offer in classified ads, but you can avoid that. You should be able to slide it by with the wheel turned. Hope it helps!
http://www.pelicanparts.com/bmw/techarticles/101-Projects-90-Gauges/Pic3-01.jpg
Here is a photo of the rear of the E36 gauge cluster. Each one of the plastic tabs is the back side of an instrument bulb. The black ones indicate individual lamps (like the ABS warning lamp), whereas the green ones are used for backlighting the gauges. The tan ones are used to illuminate the LCD/odometer display. Be sure to make a note of which bulbs are burned out before you pull the gauge cluster. The yellow arrows point to the five screws that must be removed to access the inside of the gauge cluster (see Project 91). 1: Temperature warning. 2: Right turn signal. 3: Left turn signal. 4: Oil pressure warning. 5: High-beam indicator. 6: Battery-charging indicator. 7: Low-fuel-level warning. 8/9/10: Gauge cluster illumination. 11: AST warning. 12/13: LCD/odometer illumination. 14: Air bag warning. 15: Catalytic converter warning. 16: Parking brake indicator. 17: Brake fluid warning. 18: Brake pad wear warning. 19: ABS warning. 20: Seatbelt warning. 21: System check control. 22: Automatic transmission warning. 23: Not enabled. 24: Check-engine warning. 25: Convertible anti-roll warning. 26: Not enabled. 27: Rear fog lamp. 28: Front fog lamp.

[jim123]

Thanks Shogun, i will give it a go and let you know. As always, i apprecieate the help.

[shogun]

I found another good info and DIY write up here

E36 M3 Front Lower Control Arm Ball Joint Replacement
E36 M3 Front Lower Control Arm Ball Joint Replacement | BMW E36 DIY (http://e36diy.com/e36-m3-replacement-front-control-arm-ball-joint/)

just for the case that the link disappears I copy the most important here:


This article covers the DIY approach to pressing in new ball joints into an e36 front control arm.

Many Enthusiasts aren’t aware you’re able to press in new ball joints to the e36 M3 Control arms. By pressing out your old ball joints, reusing the control arm, and pressing in new e30 ball joints, you can save yourself hundreds of dollars vs buying a whole new assembly.

You’ll need the following parts:
2x Lemforder Ball Joint #1
Brand Lemfoerder
Item Weight 12 ounces
Product Dimensions 3.2 x 3.2 x 2.8 inches
Item model number W0133-1627524-LEM
Manufacturer Part Number W01331627524LEM
Lemforder Ball Joint : Amazon.com : Automotive (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001G6KHSW/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=B001G6KHSW&linkCode=as2&tag=carfibfibdiyh-20)

2x Lemforder Ball Joint #2
Brand Lemfoerder
Item Weight 15.2 ounces
Product Dimensions 5.5 x 4 x 2.5 inches
Item model number W0133-1626314-LEM
Manufacturer Part Number W01331626314LEM
Amazon.com: Lemforder Ball Joint: Automotive (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001G6T4WC/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=B001G6T4WC&linkCode=as2&tag=carfibfibdiyh-20)

Torin T51201 Shop Press – 12 Ton
Torin T51201 Shop Press - 12 Ton : Amazon.com : Automotive (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000HD6G7G/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=B000HD6G7G&linkCode=as2&tag=carfibfibdiyh-20)
We recommend the ball joints shown above, as they are Heavy duty replacements with metal inserts. They’re also from the cheapest location we could find online.

You’ll first need to remove the front control arm. You can find DIY e36 Control arm removal instructions here.
E36 Front Lower Control Arm Replacment DIY | BMW E36 DIY (http://e36diy.com/e36-front-control-arm-removal-diy/)
There are two tools that are essential for this job:
22mm Flex-Head Ratcheting Wrench
(When removing the center ball joint nut, space is very limited, using a standard wrench you’re only able to turn the nut a quarter of a revolution at a time, and must flip the wrench each turn. A ratcheting wrench will save you considerable time and agony, trust me.)
Pickle Forks (Necessary for removing the balljoint from the subframe and hub)
A nice video showing the removal of the front lower control arm on an E36 chassis.

Torque specs:
- Ball joint to cross member 85 Nm / 62 ft-lb
- Ball joint to steering arm 65 Nm / 48 ft-lb
- Bushing carrier (lollipop) to body 47 Nm / 34 ft-lb
- Sway bar drop link (M8) 42 Nm / 31 ft-lb
- Wheel to hub 100 +-10 Nm / 74 +-7 ft-lb

With the arm removed, mark the indentations on the control arm from the ball joints. It’s important the new ball joints are aligned in the same manner as the old. Use paint or a sharpie to mark the location of the ball joints before pressing them out.
Press the old ball joint out in a similar fashion as show here.
Here you can see the control arm with the old ball joints pressed out. Note how on some e36 models the ball joints used plastic braces which fail easily. The new Lemforder balljoints we are replacing them with are an all metal construction.
Now simply press in the new ball joints in the same manner as you removed them, pay attention to the orientation marks you created earlier. Finally install the control arms in the reverse order they were removed, and marvel at your work. By simply pressing in new bushings, the total cost of the repair not including a press is only around $120. Cheaper than one complete control arm assembly.

[jim123]

Hey Shogun, i think i got an old message today. i havnt been on this site for a while, so thought it would be nice to catch up. i have finally worn out the suspension on the front of my car, i have new bilstiens to be put on, just havnt got around to it yet. my mate has just done his bmw, and although its an e30, he said it wouldnt be that much difference. i receiently had some trouble with the pcv valve. idleing rough and i had no idea why. my mate to the rescue again. he found the problem in a flash. the price of a new valve almost gave me a heart attack though, but these things happen. i am thinking of traiding up if i can afford it. i think my engine is getting a little tired and although i love my car, i think its now time for a newer modle. this one was my first bmw, and i will never forget it. its a great car. i hope whoever gets it will be able to afford to take better care of it than i was. Hopeing to find another bmw, perhaps something after 2000. see how i go.

[shogun]

I just found these for a 1998 E36 M3 from Detroit Axle: https://www.detroitaxle.com/shop/suspension/control-arm/front-lower-left-control-arm-ball-joint-assembly-30/?vyr=1998&vmk=BMW&vmd=M3
1998 BMW M3 Lower Control Arm w/Ball Joint – Front, Passenger Side Part #K80532 $45.26
1998 BMW M3 Lower Control Arm w/Ball Joint – Front, Driver Side Part #K80531 $42.75

that seems "super cheap" + is backed by a 10-year warranty, anyone ever tried these from Detroit Axle? Do not need them now, was searching the net for the 1996-1999 lower control arms to check prices and google search showed them.

[shogun]

long thread with many pics and part numbers which clarifies all questions: E36 M3 Control Arm Ball Joint Replacement with E30 https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?1545037-E36-M3-Control-Arm-Ball-Joint-Replacement-with-E30&highlight=balljoint

1996 + E36 M3
the BMW part numbers for the E30 joints are:
31121126254 for the outer joint
31121126253 for the inner