S38 into Non M5? Best candidate?

[CharlesAFerg]

I seem to be having a hard time finding information on cars that have had this swap performed on them. Is it possible to swap an S38 into a non-M E34? (I'm assuming a post '95' engine, because of EWS issues)

If so, which car would make the best candidate?

[shogun]

E31
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7vC7CynI7is
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=abfu-0wkZ6A&NR=1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0bNb6oHg1_w

[CharlesAFerg]

Why the heck is the 8 series so heavy, though? It's over 4000lbs!

E31
840i (1,890 kg) 4,167 lb
850i (1,945 kg) 4,288 lb

Compared to...
e34
525i (couldn't find) 189hp
530i (1,655) 3,650 lb 215hp
535i (1,619) 3,570 lb 208hp
540i (1,710) 3,770 lb 282hp
M5 (1,718) 3,788 lb 310hp

[bubba966]

Any US model S38 you're going to find isn't going to have any EWS since the last S38 equipped car sold in the US was the '93 M5.

I'd imagine the 535 would be easiest to drop the S38 into. Though it shouldn't be much different doing it with a 525. The 530 & 540 would be more of a pain due to the rather different layout of the V8 engine bay.

Why not just get a nice 540/6? It'd cost less to buy a 540/6 than it would just to buy a good S38B36. And you're going to need more than just an S38 to do a conversion. Not to mention a good running M60B40 will keep pace with an S38B36 when being driven under 100, and keep slightly ahead of the S38 under 60.

The 540/6 will give you better MPG than the S38 will. And parts are insanely cheaper for an M60 than an S38. The S38 also requires much more attention than the M60 does. I do love the sound of the S38. But the lack of any power under 4,500RPM on the S38, expense, etc. of the S38 make it very hard for me to find any good reason to throw an S38 into a non M5 E34. I say this all from having driven & worked on both a '93 M5 & a '95 540 M-Sport.

Now if you found a free S38 that didn't need a rebuild (those run in the $8k-$12k range) and found a nice 535 for a grand or two then I can see going ahead with a swap.

[CharlesAFerg]

I am planning on buying a 540i/6, actually, but thanks for the info, mom. :p

[bubba966]

Just saying I don't see the big deal about the S38. They're expensive & practically worthless under 4,500 RPM (feels like an M50TU under 4,500 RPM). The do sound absolutely amazing though. And if you keep 'em above 4,500 RPM they're fine. But try driving above 4,500 RPM all of the time. Not fun. I've spent many hours behind the wheel of a '93 M5 and enjoyed it greatly. But the M-Sport is even better IMO.

Only thing I like better about the M5 over the M-Sport is the sound of the S38. The M60 does sound nice at higher RPM's. But they're two totally different sounds. The S38 sounds more raw while the M60 sounds fairly refined.

Haven't driven a non M-Sport 540 yet, so don't know how they compare as it's been said the M-Sport's had hotter tunes from the factory (probably why my stock M-Sport got to 60 quicker from a stop than friend's '93 M5 w/Dinan chip). But a good chip from EAT or Conforti will equalize that.

The S38 is great on a racetrack or the autobahn. Kind of a pain in city settings.

[repenttokyo]

S38 is great in the M5, but as a swap it's not something I would recommend. There are many better, cheaper options that will offer as much power with far less required maintenance, better parts availability and better reliability.

[Blitzkrieg Bob]

E31
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7vC7CynI7is
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=abfu-0wkZ6A&NR=1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0bNb6oHg1_w

Yeah!!!

But I'd rather swap an E39 M5 into it

[mancini_mark]

How about an S52? I had one in my old 5 with a powerdyne supercharger. Crazy fast. I bet it'd torch an S38 M5.

[Blitzkrieg Bob]

This would get stupid expensive. ( unless you’re a kid with a rich step dad and living at home and wish to spend the GNP of a small country on a project car)

S38 plus trans, DME, wire harness, exhaust, drive shaft, rear end..and on and on.

S38 is expensive to maintain...even on your own...the tappet tool is $90 alone, plus micrometer, shims and just about every other part is 3X the usual price over any other BMW motor.

Either buy an M or like planned a 540/6, or even a 535/5

[Blitzkrieg Bob]

How about an S52? I had one in my old 5 with a powerdyne supercharger. Crazy fast. I bet it'd torch an S38 M5.

Yup, and plenty of cheap wrecked M3s to pick a donor from

[Tiger]

Just change your differential gear ratio to get the pep you want. It is like putting a "sport" option on your car.

[shogun]

o.k., the E31 might be not the ideal car because of the weight, but that guy likes E31, he has a tuning parts shop and uses this car as his 'show room model'. Have seen it on the last meeting here we had in Tokyo, very nice and clean engine installation, also the other stuff.
The front spoiler it BTW from a Toyota Supra, modified to fit on the E31.

[Blitzkrieg Bob]

Just saying I don't see the big deal about the S38. They're expensive & practically worthless under 4,500 RPM (feels like an M50TU under 4,500 RPM). The do sound absolutely amazing though. And if you keep 'em above 4,500 RPM they're fine. But try driving above 4,500 RPM all of the time. Not fun.

Check the resonance flap system, common problem with the lower RPM performance. If its not working the pre 4500RPM feels sluggish... It should feel like a constant pull and then an explosive jump in power once 4000-4500 RPM are reached

[Rick L]

Yep. A friend changed his diff to 4.10 on his E46 M3 and definitely feel the difference. I couldn't say it is actaully faster but wow, it sure is fun. :D



Just change your differential gear ratio to get the pep you want. It is like putting a "sport" option on your car.

[Tiger]

That's the key... it is extremely fun...

[CharlesAFerg]

Yup, and plenty of cheap wrecked M3s to pick a donor from

MY car is an M20 car, so this wouldn't work. Still, I see what you're getting at.

[Blitzkrieg Bob]

MY car is an M20 car, so this wouldn't work. Still, I see what you're getting at.

Of course it would work... you'd swap everything ...Motor, trans, wire harness, DME.

all you need is M50 motor mounts, oil pan and pick up tube, exhaust, and trans mounts, and a frankenstein driveshaft.

We have couple of guys who have even done this to E30s...much more work

[Ferret]

Why the heck is the 8 series so heavy, though? It's over 4000lbs!

E31
840i (1,890 kg) 4,167 lb
850i (1,945 kg) 4,288 lb

Compared to...
e34
525i (couldn't find) 189hp
530i (1,655) 3,650 lb 215hp
535i (1,619) 3,570 lb 208hp
540i (1,710) 3,770 lb 282hp
M5 (1,718) 3,788 lb 310hp

It's the roof - because the 8 series is pillarless they went a bit nuts with the roof reinforcement, it practically has its own spaceframe crammed into the roofliner.

Also the 8 series is a -big- car - it's easily coming close to the physical size of a 7...!

[repenttokyo]

yeah it's a very popular e30 swap.