E34 Troubles

[calibra]

Hi all
So far i have pinched other peoples posts to find out whats wrong with my car so i thought i would list of the problems and see what people can come up with then i can tick them off as they are fixed :D

1. She doesn't like to start when facing uphill
2. My rear hatch window doesn't open
3. The middle air vents only blow cold air
4. 4th injector has a small leak does anyone know if there is a washer or seal?
5. I have read this all over the forum but have no idea what it means DME? lol

some other little jobs iv done
Trust arms done. (damn hard work just getting the bolt out rest was easy)
Rear park brake done.

thanks for any help all

P.s problem 1 is almost fixed i think just got to test pump with 12volts, if it doesn't work then ill go get a new one, and i have now get a one way valve to put on the fuel line :D

[attack eagle]

#2 ; hatch harnesses (common) or switch in the gate.

#3 which center vents? console rear or dash? console rear does only fresh or air conditioned air

[calibra]

Cheers for reply

looking at the info for number 2 just cant find the relay for the hatch cant seem to find it in the rear wheel arch :(

number 3 its the dash vents sorry i should have been more clear on that :)

cheers

[attack eagle]

Probably not the relay FYI.

Probably a broken wire where the wires go from body to hatch.

power goes into the gate to the switch, returns out of the gate to the relay, and then from the relay returns to the gate again to the motor.
Convoluted as hell, especially when you figure the relay is on the right side and the wires are on the left side of the hatch.



The relay is under the carpeted panel on the right wall of the cargo area.

you need to remove the entire right side to access it. basically he same thing as accessing the strut top. instructions for that are on www.bmw34.net

There are two smaller relays at the end of the row of relays etc there. one is hatch glass and he other hatch.

[bad_manners_god]

Cheers for reply

looking at the info for number 2 just cant find the relay for the hatch cant seem to find it in the rear wheel arch :(

number 3 its the dash vents sorry i should have been more clear on that :)

cheers

The relay is in a funny place.

Open your hatch, look to your right, you have the hide away panel that opens. Now the piece that covers your Strut Tower has to come out.

Drop the rear seats flat for more room to work, take out the seat belt mechanism cover, there's a couple screws there that hold the big piece in place. Another Screw from the inside of the hideaway panel. 2 Screws inside the metal piece for cargo holding (there's a small cut on the inside for a flat head to pop off the flap, the screws are behind here. Now, take off the hideaway floor and push the carpeting aside, 1 or 2 clips/screws holding it.
Then giggle the piece out.

The relays will be right in front you...but dont go through all that trouble before you look at the harness.

[DaveVoorhis]

3. The middle air vents only blow cold air

Middle front or middle rear? The middle rear vents are only supposed to blow cold air. If it's the front ones, it could be a failed vent flap servo or associated mechanism.



5. I have read this all over the forum but have no idea what it means DME?

Digital Motor Electronics. I.e., the engine computer.

[calibra]

Thanks for the help ill get on that one tomorrow morning

cheers

Does anyone know about the injectors?

[Adnan]

Hi,

When you say the injector has a leak, do you mean it is leaking fuel out the top such that you can see it? Or, is it leaking air causing rough running?

Injectors use two o-rings, one down near the pintle so that it prevents air leaking past into the intake manifold and a second one at the top, where it enters the fuel rail. I'm guessing that yours is the upper one that's leaking, causing fuel to seep past?

To fix this means pulling the fuel rail first. I'm only familiar with the M30 engine in this particular area so I can't tell you how to do it. Once the rail is out, the injector can be pulled and the o-ring replaced. This is a reasonably involved job depending on your skill level so make sure of your diagnosis before you commit to it. Also, if you do this, consider replacing all the injectors or have them professionally cleaned, depending on the mileage and running characteristics.

Hope this helps.

Regards,
Adnan

[Ross]

Thanks for the help ill get on that one tomorrow morning

cheers

Does anyone know about the injectors?

There are two O-rings on each injector, one at the fuel rail and another at the head.
Remove the fuel rail and do them all, they are cheap.
Better yet send the injectors out for ultrasonic cleaning and "refurbishing" which will get you clean injectors, a fresh screen in each and new O-rings.

[calibra]

Middle front or middle rear? The middle rear vents are only supposed to blow cold air. If it's the front ones, it could be a failed vent flap servo or associated mechanism.


Digital Motor Electronics. I.e., the engine computer.


Thanks dude ill have a look at that as well doesnt seem to change anything if i move the hot and cold dial on the middle vent still come out cold

[calibra]

There are two O-rings on each injector, one at the fuel rail and another at the head.
Remove the fuel rail and do them all, they are cheap.
Better yet send the injectors out for ultrasonic cleaning and "refurbishing" which will get you clean injectors, a fresh screen in each and new O-rings.

mine doesnt have a rail its a old diesel just have the main pump with pipes leading off to the injectors :(

[Ross]

Ah yes. Please forgive my yankcentric reply.
I've never laid eyes on a BMW rattler so will remain in suspense for the correct solution.

[calibra]

hehe cheers for giving it a go would of been nice if it did have petrol injectors :)

[Morgenster]

Trouble starting on a hill facing up? How much diesel is there in the tank at that time? If I remember correctly the pump is forward in the tank and if your tank is not well filled it'll be sucking air on a serious incline.

As for the injector troubles: do you notice any problems while the car is running?

Oh and the center vents only blow cold(ambient) air on basic E34 models and I keep those closed during winter. Then again I don't even have airco.

[Ferret]

Where's the injector leaking from?

Is it coming from the pipe connection bolt at the top, the return hoses at the side or where the injector seats in the head?

If it's the bolt at the top, wrap a rag around it, back the bolt off (try not to get diesel in the face!) and get some /very/ fine glasspaper and sand the end of the pipe and top of the injector clean, wipe up any mess with the rag and bolt it all back together.

It'll run like absoloute **** for about 5 minutes after start up if you get air in the line... if you're going to clean injectors best to do them one at a time and then run the engine for 5 minutes...

If you clean them all in one batch, like I did on my 205... you're in for trouble as the injection pump cant build pressure to open the mechanical injector. Took me a good 20 minutes of engine cranking to get the 205 to restart :P

[calibra]

cheers for replys guys

with the vents there is a hot and cold setting but it doesnt seem to work didnt know if it had a sensor or just a cable that might of come adrift.

the injector is leaking at the base i think might be coming from the return pipes i have replaced them but its not like there much holding them on. Ill get an injector tool today and take it out and have a good look at it.

with the fuel pump in the take im now 100% sure its dead i pumped 12volts to it and it still didnt make a sound so ill order a new one, im still only getting 6volts down the line to the pump so might fit my own relay and take a feed from the battery. can anyone tell me does a relay need many volts to switch on?

I fitted the one valve this morning and it doesnt seem to have done much to help me run it round the block switched off and then tried to start up again and had to crank it for about 10secs before it started but im guessing and hoping really that its this injector thats the problem with this (compression) but we're see im going to full it right up and see if starting gets better

cheers

[Ross]

The relay will close with way less than 12 volts, but weakly. If you've had low voltage there the points in the relay could be toasted from arcing.

[Ferret]

cheers ross
i tested the pump lead with the relay removed and a fused wire in its place pin 30 and 87 guessing its the same for the diesel as it is for the petrol, i just done what the bently manual said for testing. was hoping another relay might have been the key looks like things are going to get hard if its not :(

I have no idea what goes on with these pump wires but they tend to burn out too quickly. Mine had been re-run by someone at some point with much thicker cable...

It's hard work getting cable into the e-box though without dismantling a whole pile of stuff!

[calibra]

cheers ross
i tested the pump lead with the relay removed and a fused wire in its place pin 30 and 87 guessing its the same for the diesel as it is for the petrol, i just done what the bently manual said for testing. was hoping another relay might have been the key looks like things are going to get hard if its not :(

[Barney Paull-Edwards]

Ross has just made a good point,tomorrow try connecting a jump battery then give it two bursts of glow plug, if it fires up uphill straight away theres your problem, and mine,low voltage.Me am going to renew 12v feeds from battery to Starter and ECU with welding cable, good cross-sectional area.

[calibra]

I have no idea what goes on with these pump wires but they tend to burn out too quickly. Mine had been re-run by someone at some point with much thicker cable...

It's hard work getting cable into the e-box though without dismantling a whole pile of stuff!

Have you rewired the pump as well ferret? i seem to remember in one of your post about doing something like that but cant remember.

I guess I'm going to have to do it as well, so from the relay in the engine bay you run a wire all the way to the pump? do you know what pin i should take it from? and as you say some rewired yours with bigger cable did that last or still burn out? sorry for so many questions just want to get it right before i start.

I'm going to take that injector out tomorrow got the tool today as its got from what i can see i bad leak on it just hoping i can clean it up and get it back in ok, its injector 4 the one with the cable on it.
Looking at the injectors they look like this come apart in to half's it looks like its that join in the middle thats leaking but i really cant be sure with the inlet manifold there

one thing I'm sure about with this car is the pump is dead so I'm going to stop playing with that until i have a new one, if its the original part its done very well car has now done 165000 miles!

[calibra]

Ross has just made a good point,tomorrow try connecting a jump battery then give it two bursts of glow plug, if it fires up uphill straight away theres your problem, and mine,low voltage.Me am going to renew 12v feeds from battery to Starter and ECU with welding cable, good cross-sectional area.

The thing is first thing in the morning when the glow plug come on the car starts well its after its been running i get hard to start problems not sure if the sensor for the glow plugs is out? lol don't know where it is for that matter and of course leaving the car facing up hill makes things very hard but thats going to be ok with a new pump and i bit of a rewire (I HOPE)

cheers

[Ferret]

The thing is first thing in the morning when the glow plug come on the car starts well its after its been running i get hard to start problems not sure if the sensor for the glow plugs is out? lol don't know where it is for that matter and of course leaving the car facing up hill makes things very hard but thats going to be ok with a new pump and i bit of a rewire (I HOPE)

cheers

There's a temp sensor under the bonnet that causes this, there's a method of bypassing it iirc.

My TDS would always snap start from cold when the tank was low (so long as it'd been used in the last 24 hours!) - warm it could take a full minute of cranking before it'd fire... (after fixing the pump problem)

Have a look at this:
http://www.landyzone.co.uk/lz/f10/diesel-hot-starting-fault-p38-21995.html

If you ever need scrap parts for the TDS engine by the way, hunt down diesel P38 range rovers and vauxhall omega diesels - they all use the same engine.

[calibra]

There's a temp sensor under the bonnet that causes this, there's a method of bypassing it iirc.

My TDS would always snap start from cold when the tank was low (so long as it'd been used in the last 24 hours!) - warm it could take a full minute of cranking before it'd fire... (after fixing the pump problem)

Have a look at this:
http://www.landyzone.co.uk/lz/f10/diesel-hot-starting-fault-p38-21995.html

If you ever need scrap parts for the TDS engine by the way, hunt down diesel P38 range rovers and vauxhall omega diesels - they all use the same engine.

Thanks ferret

you say you still had a starting problem after doing the fuel pump?

to have the glow plugs work everytime does sound like a good thing with this engine.

Today i was going to take the injector out to have a good look at it but the tool i got wasnt big enough Doh, but with the inlet manifold off i could see a lot more of it and it seem to be the to pipes coming off the injector that are leaking not sure what to do about this as i have replaced them once, maybe a smaller pipe and ram it on

As with the manifold off i could see fuel coming from a glow plug 4th one so thats the one for my bad injector cracked it up and run the engine, it seems that these pipes hold for a about 30mins then start to leak i have checked every injector and there isnt a block to build pressure up so im not sure why these two are slipping up any idea's anyone??

[Ferret]

Hey Ferret

what you said about where the injector is leaking it is leaking on the return hoses at the sides i read on another forum that a dead injector will push the fuel out if the injector would you say this is right coz that could be my problem the 4th injector does have a leak and i cant stop it. Being the 4th injector im guessing i cant do much with it apart from get a new one? is there an easy way to test them?

thanks for any help

Hey mate,

You should expect a certain amount of leak-back from the injectors - some of the fuel slips by the mechanical plunger inside the injector and has to get back to the tank.

Testing these can only be done by someone with specialised kit - they need a massive amount of pressure to open. Also can be very dangerous as the pressure they operate at will slice skin if you get your hand in the way.

It could be that your injector has got a serious leak and it's allowing air to creep back into the fuel lines - but beware if one's doing it the others will follow shortly unless this one particular ones had some sort of trauma.

Get yourself down to a scrapyard and rip one out of a scrap engine that appears to be relatively clean... or take 2 or 3 for spares :D

[calibra]

Where's the injector leaking from?

Is it coming from the pipe connection bolt at the top, the return hoses at the side or where the injector seats in the head?

If it's the bolt at the top, wrap a rag around it, back the bolt off (try not to get diesel in the face!) and get some /very/ fine glasspaper and sand the end of the pipe and top of the injector clean, wipe up any mess with the rag and bolt it all back together.

It'll run like absoloute **** for about 5 minutes after start up if you get air in the line... if you're going to clean injectors best to do them one at a time and then run the engine for 5 minutes...

If you clean them all in one batch, like I did on my 205... you're in for trouble as the injection pump cant build pressure to open the mechanical injector. Took me a good 20 minutes of engine cranking to get the 205 to restart :P


Hey Ferret

what you said about where the injector is leaking it is leaking on the return hoses at the sides i read on another forum that a dead injector will push the fuel out if the injector would you say this is right coz that could be my problem the 4th injector does have a leak and i cant stop it. Being the 4th injector im guessing i cant do much with it apart from get a new one? is there an easy way to test them?

thanks for any help

[calibra]

Damn was hoping the other would be ok :( the one thats leak has the cable on it can i run the car with the cable pluged in for a short time just to see if things get better?

Guess it wouldnt help if i found a stronger pipe to gone on these return nipples thinking it would just push them off to.

It only seems to leak once the engine is upto temp like you said before i have had a look around for p38 and vauxhall parts found some injectors for the p38 with cable 139 +vat going to phone bmw and few others tomorrow

cheers

[Paul in NZ]

devils advocate here...what does the glow plug have to do with starting uphill?

[calibra]

This glow plug temp sensor are there 2 one air and another for water?
if so would i just be able to unplug them so the car always trys to run the glows ?

[calibra]

its all to do with the way it trys to start if im facing up hill and the engine is warm the glow plugs wont come on and with out them its a lot harder to start the car. Iv found that i almost always get the car started quicker when the glow plug light comes up

[Ferret]

its all to do with the way it trys to start if im facing up hill and the engine is warm the glow plugs wont come on and with out them its a lot harder to start the car. Iv found that i almost always get the car started quicker when the glow plug light comes up

Also;

The primer pump is forced on by the glow plug relay... it's some sort of failsafe device. If your plugs come on you know that you're getting a proper supply to your in tank pump.

[Barney Paull-Edwards]

Not sure what you done but for the first time, if I have under half tank it takes for ever to start uphill! New problem but I suspect the problem I have is the same as yours.Fuel bugs in tank,lift carpet, on RHS there is small cover, remove,go buy two jubilee clips to fit hoses and spray electric connector with WD.Use big grips to loosen knurled ring but do not remove,use cutters to remove original fuel pipe clips(if jubilee they have been done before),remove electric plug by opening clips and gently wriggling,take off fuel pipes,MARK POSITION,take off knurled ring and tap top,lift out, it clips in tank bottom so may require heave,put on glove and feel in tank,if fuel is black or glove comes out black, theres your problem.With pump out clean strainer on bottom and refer to Ferret thread for `O` ring replacement. If dirt in tank, empty and wipe and wash with petrol til clean, change filter but with it off flush lines out,I forgot and bugs came back.Put back together and enjoy!!