Quick and Dirty big turbo build price sheet

[Jon K]

Hey guys I have been preparing this for my own record, but I figured I'd share with you guys what it costs to go from my setup now, to this new setup. Granted the horsepower range is a huge difference... the new setup will be able to hold about 600 - 700 more horsepower than the current setup. Not that I plan to try and hit 1000 hp, but the components are all capable.



This is before tax on stuff and before shipping on stuff, nor does it include labor of building the exhaust/piping/manifold/etc. It also does not take into consideration ANY of my engine build costs. The cost of the new pistons/rods is factored in though, but none of the machine work and rebuild parts.

[bimmerd00d]

cool, but for less than half you could have built an LS6 and slapped a rooster booster on there and had more power, and you'd still have money leftover after the install.....but i'm a cheapass. :p

[Brandon J]

Wow, thats a lot of dough. Please do take vids of driving the project when done.

[Jon K]

cool, but for less than half you could have built an LS6 and slapped a rooster booster on there and had more power, and you'd still have money leftover after the install.....but i'm a cheapass. :p

I'd have 1/4 the challenge, 1/4 the balls, and 1/4 the fun. I could swap in a 454 with 800 on spray too... but again...

I am looking for between 800 - 900 hp from < 3.0L, 30 - 35 psi and 150 on spray. It will be a supra killer :)


Brandon - of course I will :)

[bimmerd00d]

I'd have 1/4 the challenge, 1/4 the balls, and 1/4 the fun. I could swap in a 454 with 800 on spray too... but again...

I am looking for between 800 - 900 hp from < 3.0L, 30 - 35 psi and 150 on spray. It will be a supra killer :)


Brandon - of course I will :)

teh bmw can nevah lose! Upon completion, i will be sending you a 518i badge, and then signing you up for Pinks. :D

[Jon K]

teh bmw can nevah lose! Upon completion, i will be sending you a 518i badge, and then signing you up for Pinks. :D

Haha as long as I don't have to pop the hood I should do fine :)

[puppypilgrim]

Totally sleeper. Like a 525i badge.

[Jon K]

Totally sleeper. Like a 525i badge.

It'll stay debadged just because I like it clean.

I picked up my fuel pump and fuel filter on lunch today. H O L Y C R A P.

[repenttokyo]

cool, but for less than half you could have built an LS6 and slapped a rooster booster on there and had more power, and you'd still have money leftover after the install.....but i'm a cheapass. :p


and it would be a sick ride.

[Jon K]

Itd be a camaro...

[repenttokyo]

Itd be a camaro...


no, it would be a car with the handling of an e34 plus a lightweight V8 generating lot more torque and hp....nothing like a camaro.

If you put an LS1 in a Miata, would that make it a Camaro? No. The LS1 is of almost identical weight to the Miata drivetrain. You preserve the balance of the car and increase the power, which is a great combination.

I would put an LS1 in my e34 if I didn't like the sound of the 6 so much - 4k buys you a 400 hp aluminum v8 and a six speed transmission, that's a great deal.

[filip00]

great work Jon, massive respect on your effort and will to do all that yourself. do post more pictures and videos about your work!

[Jon K]

no, it would be a car with the handling of an e34 plus a lightweight V8 generating lot more torque and hp....nothing like a camaro.

If you put an LS1 in a Miata, would that make it a Camaro? No. The LS1 is of almost identical weight to the Miata drivetrain. You preserve the balance of the car and increase the power, which is a great combination.

I would put an LS1 in my e34 if I didn't like the sound of the 6 so much - 4k buys you a 400 hp aluminum v8 and a six speed transmission, that's a great deal.

A miata with an LS1 is joke in all but 3rd gear. An LS1 in an E34... just doesn't do it for me. Cramped V8, no room for turbo, whole new platform, need to fabricate transmission, not worth it with the stock rear... just a waste.

You'll see - there's no need for that **** :) Trust me ;)



Thanks Fillip

[repenttokyo]

A miata with an LS1 is joke in all but 3rd gear. An LS1 in an E34... just doesn't do it for me. Cramped V8, no room for turbo, whole new platform, need to fabricate transmission, not worth it with the stock rear... just a waste.

You'll see - there's no need for that **** :) Trust me ;)



Thanks Fillip

A Miata with an LS1 is not a joke. Many people make this conversion and are extremely happy with it, and it makes an excellent track car. With proper suspension design the power is very easy to handle. I have friends with high powered Miatas and even an LS1 powered RX7 and the cars are extremely driveable in all gears.

Why would you have to fabricate a transmission for an e34? Just use the stock T56 that comes with the motor. Who cares if you need to replace the rear end? There are solutions out there. There is even a complete kit to install an LS1 in an e36. It's not a huge undertaking by any means, as long as you are willing to put in the time - and some people are.

I know that it "doesn't do it for you", but there's no need to be reject ideas that run counter to your preference for how power should be made in an e34. All I did in this thread was mention that I agreed with another poster that an LS1 e34 would be a fun car. No one disparaged your setup, or using a turbo to make power. There's more than one was to do things dude. Relax and realize it takes different strokes to move the e34 world. If you don't like it / don't want to do things that way, fine, but there's no need to talk **** about it.

[Sam-Son]

umm am I the only one who thinks that price isnt so bad...infact its pretty resonable

[Jon K]

A Miata with an LS1 is not a joke. Many people make this conversion and are extremely happy with it, and it makes an excellent track car. With proper suspension design the power is very easy to handle. I have friends with high powered Miatas and even an LS1 powered RX7 and the cars are extremely driveable in all gears.

Why would you have to fabricate a transmission for an e34? Just use the stock T56 that comes with the motor. Who cares if you need to replace the rear end? There are solutions out there. There is even a complete kit to install an LS1 in an e36. It's not a huge undertaking by any means, as long as you are willing to put in the time - and some people are.

I know that it "doesn't do it for you", but there's no need to be reject ideas that run counter to your preference for how power should be made in an e34. All I did in this thread was mention that I agreed with another poster that an LS1 e34 would be a fun car. No one disparaged your setup, or using a turbo to make power. There's more than one was to do things dude. Relax and realize it takes different strokes to move the e34 world. If you don't like it / don't want to do things that way, fine, but there's no need to talk **** about it.

Preaching to the choir. Why are you getting all worked up? Talk ****? Bro I've helped on Miata swaps, chill. Brandon was only joking it's pretty established that I am not interested in doing an engine swap - I am spending over $15,000 on a turbo setup - I could swap nearly any V8 I wanted for that price. This thread isn't geared at "what about swapping a domestic V8 in?" - I've had a lot of people on this forum PM about how much it costs to do a big build, so I figured I'd share.

Besides, the build I am doing will out run an LS1 for the same money. It's not as easy as you make it out to be - Miatas have "kits" to swap the motor, just like RX7. You won't be running the pan with the E34 cross member, the steering rack, the column, obviously the firewall will be a challenge and the frame rails will make for custom headers, and you haven't even got to cooling and tuning. Its a big deal, and its honestly not worth it to me. If I were building a a budget auto crosser with a bad paint job I wouldn't mind cutting my firewall. But there's very little use in my desired hp level and autocrossing - the point/idea is moot.


Sam Son, what price ya mean?

[Sam-Son]

Sam Son, what price ya mean?
the 9K sounds like a bargain for 700HP

[Jon K]

1

[Sam-Son]

I mean so far I've spent almost 9k on my car and I dont have anywhere near 700HP:p
I'd get an S52 but then again you know I like NA Horses

[Jon K]

I mean so far I've spent almost 9k on my car and I dont have anywhere near 700HP:p
I'd get an S52 but then again you know I like NA Horses

yeah I have a fair amount in the "car" as well. Prob more than average. I dunno I don't want to count.

The S52 makes for a questionable turbo motor because of the 86.4 mm bore and area between cylinders for headgasket clamp. Its crazy because most guys with S52 motors bore to 87mm... talk about thin wall.

[Macv]

buy my 5 next. turbo this bitch.

[Jon K]

haha too many bmws in this driveway man

[Sam-Son]

haha too many bmws in this driveway man
thats just a silly statement...:D

[Macv]

haha too many bmws in this driveway man

ban!

seriously though. If you want to turbo a 540... call me up.

[e345spd]

I for one think that a turbo bmw engine is way better than a domestic V8. Domestic v8s are....not the same, and anyways Jon K's car will be much faster than a ls1 swap, which, by the way, would cost more than 4k in the long run, especially once you get miles on it. Remember about the hot spots on on American engines. Domestic engines are usually poorly designed and corners are cut to save money (this is why they are so cheap).

Great job on your car Jon, I believe it's the best looking engine I've seen

[bubba966]

Jon, why is it you're using just a stock water pump on this motor? I'm quite surprised you're not using a Stewart pump, or some fancy electric racing pump.

[repenttokyo]

Domestic engines are usually poorly designed and corners are cut to save money (this is why they are so cheap).



wow you really have no idea what you are talking about.

why can't domestic engines and turbo setups coexist without people trash talking?

[Ross]

Jon, 1000 hp?

[Ross]

Hot spots on American engines?? Have you ever seen the inside of an engine?
I know this is a biased forum but jeez.
The point about which engine would be faster in Jon's car is rediculous anyway because the MOMENT he gets 700 horses to hook up the differential is going to turn into dust. Sorry Jon.

[Booster]

Witness the power of addiction boosters !!Or the addiction to power ??Lol.
VInny:p

[nizmainiac]

it's money and time well spent, keep it up dude

[Jon K]

Hot spots on American engines?? Have you ever seen the inside of an engine?
I know this is a biased forum but jeez.
The point about which engine would be faster in Jon's car is rediculous anyway because the MOMENT he gets 700 horses to hook up the differential is going to turn into dust. Sorry Jon.

Experience or just guess work?


990 hp through stock differentials with mickey thompsons and driveshaftshop axles. Personally know of two cars one with approximately 680 whp and E34 diff runs low 10's with M/T's and E34 diff, the other is a E34 3.73 LSD making around 580 again on M/Ts.

You really need to stop talking about stuff you don't know about :D

[Jon K]

Jon, why is it you're using just a stock water pump on this motor? I'm quite surprised you're not using a Stewart pump, or some fancy electric racing pump.

I am a firm believer that modifications to the cooling system like a pump is a bandaid to rememdy and over heating problem. I have a new radiator and personally I'd just reuse my current water pump if it weren't yucky looking ;) I have used a few stewart warner pumps and I can't say I am impressed with them.

[bubba966]

I am a firm believer that modifications to the cooling system like a pump is a bandaid to rememdy and over heating problem. I have a new radiator and personally I'd just reuse my current water pump if it weren't yucky looking ;) I have used a few stewart warner pumps and I can't say I am impressed with them.

Sure, throwing a higher flow pump on to cure an overheating problem isn't any good. But a pump is designed to deal with a certain cooling capacity.

And I don't know what kind of power you're looking to produce, but I'm guessing it's going to be about 4x stock output. And that'll produce more heat. I'm sure that a properly working BMW cooling system is slightly overbuilt, but will the stock system actually adequately cool the heat that you'll be creating?

I know that the ceramic coating things will be helping keep the engine temp down, as will that 4" straight pipe you'll be running. But will that be enough help so as to not overload the cooling system as you have it?

[Ross]

Experience or just guess work?


990 hp through stock differentials with mickey thompsons and driveshaftshop axles. Personally know of two cars one with approximately 680 whp and E34 diff runs low 10's with M/T's and E34 diff, the other is a E34 3.73 LSD making around 580 again on M/Ts.

You really need to stop talking about stuff you don't know about :D
Gee Jon I guess all the guys using 9" ring gear axles in their drag cars are wasting their time, or perhaps their horsepower is at the wheel, crank, whichever and not horsepower at the lip.
With regard to the low ten second E34; With everything still in the car an E34 weighs about 3400lbs. It takes ~550hp(crank) to get a car of that weight to those ETs. I'll go further out on a limb and say that said car has probably been lightened a bit requiring even less power to do the claimed ET.
My point is this, it either ain't makin 680 hp or it ain't gettin' all of it to the ground. If indeed some E34 diff is surviving even the amount I've calculated I'm damn impressed.
God bless you Jon, I know your having fun and my comment about destroying the rear wasn't meant to rain on your parade.

[Jon K]

Gee Jon I guess all the guys using 9" ring gear axles in their drag cars are wasting their time, or perhaps their horsepower is at the wheel, crank, whichever and not horsepower at the lip.
With regard to the low ten second E34; With everything still in the car an E34 weighs about 3400lbs. It takes ~550hp(crank) to get a car of that weight to those ETs. I'll go further out on a limb and say that said car has probably been lightened a bit requiring even less power to do the claimed ET.
My point is this, it either ain't makin 680 hp or it ain't gettin' all of it to the ground. If indeed some E34 diff is surviving even the amount I've calculated I'm damn impressed.
God bless you Jon, I know your having fun and my comment about destroying the rear wasn't meant to rain on your parade.

Ross while I value your input I am a little more familiar with what the rear ends on these cars can and cannot do. I fully expect to break axle after axle, as I refuse to pay nearly $2,000 for the available axle upgrade. But the differential is the least of my worries. A guy I know just broke an input flange off his diff in a full interior E36 M3 that, prior to breaking the diff, ran 9.96 - full interior, drives it on the street. More over, we know a guy in MD with a 996 rwhp 328i with upgraded driveshaft and axles, but stock differentials. He's broke one transmission but again, differential is still there. These 210 diffs are not weak, and short of putting a 4 link in the car and deeming it completely impractical, I feel there is no need. My personal car will not be a drag racer - it will see the track, but it will not live there. This is a street car afterall.



Bubba - for super crazy extended time in pulls the coolant might come up in temp. The highest I have seen is like 210 degrees with very retarded (high egt.. hot) timing. But realize my car won't be under load until its at speed with this large turbo, so there will be more than enough cooling past the radiator. Additionally, I have water/methanol injection to cool combustion temperatures and plan to run about 100 horsepower worth of nitrous which is also a cooling process as well as an oxidizer. A good healthy stock setup is always more than enough in our cars. If you are making more heat than that, the radiator isn't large enough for the motor, or you have bad/failing components. A lot of high hp hondas are running 1/2 width radiators and stock coolant pumps. You hear stewart warner brag about higher flow per min and such, but the truth is, its not all its cracked up to be only because if you flow water too fast it doesn't have timing to absorb heat and remove it form the engine. So, half empty... half full... call it what ya want :)

[repenttokyo]

those dudes running 9's and 900 hp in the street - is that on pump gas? or are they driving on race gas in the street too?

[Jon K]

those dudes running 9's and 900 hp in the street - is that on pump gas? or are they driving on race gas in the street too?

Depends - we're all on standalone ECUs so I we can go between tunes. Most guys will run 93 octane on the street but have methanol injection. Me personally, I will probably tune for pump fuel first, get used to the power, and then go back on 110 octane + methanol and have at it.

[Booster]

That IS impressive if these stock diffs are living through that kind of torque ! I'm sure ,as in all stressed stock parts....how many hammerings they can withstand before something inside them lets go?20....50....200 ??MOre ?
I doubt my lower HP car will have too much to worry about in this department....maybe the clutch assembly....and later on....some high mileage axles....but I doubt the diff given what you've mentioned here.Right on.:p

Another note.....I'm going to try and rebend my AC lines too.Not real sure if they'll have to be lengthened or not yet.:( Might have to relocate the junction block.
Vinny

[Jon K]

That IS impressive if these stock diffs are living through that kind of torque ! I'm sure ,as in all stressed stock parts....how many hammerings they can withstand before something inside them lets go?20....50....200 ??MOre ?
I doubt my lower HP car will have too much to worry about in this department....maybe the clutch assembly....and later on....some high mileage axles....but I doubt the diff given what you've mentioned here.Right on.:p

Another note.....I'm going to try and rebend my AC lines too.Not real sure if they'll have to be lengthened or not yet.:( Might have to relocate the junction block.
Vinny

AC lines? Never heard of em!:D

[Booster]

AC lines? Never heard of em!:D

Oh I know....you youngin's will want it later on too !;) Trust me on that. Just maybe not on THIS build Jon.Lol.
Hey .....answer my PM foo.
VInny

[Brandon J]

Wow, more people doing bench racing. No need to argue that the diff will break. I am assuming we are all in concensus to keep an eye on it. That's all. I am waiting to see if anything breaks. That's the only way to know. I hope it all stays together so you don't have to get another diff or rear halfshafts. You already spent a lot of money, way more than my swap.

Well, I am just waiting to see the driveability of this on the road with pump gas. Also, what the rpm range will be for useable power. Forget predicted power and power claims. Let's see the real dyno, the real driving in different road conditions, the real power delivery. Oh, and the real day to day living with the set-up. Let's see the turbo lag, the turbo rush, and the turbo scream. Keep up the project.

Thanks for giving us real cost numbers too.

[Brandon J]

As for your cost on the S38 swap - eh. personally the s38 isn't my tea if NA. If turbo, yes that's the end all and will be my ultimate goal. But 315 bhp NA isn't enough for my taste.

Yeah, 315 base HP isn't my taste either. Not there anymore in NA. I'll wait for the project to be completed. No use for talking about something that isn't done.

[Jon K]

Wow, more people doing bench racing. No need to argue that the diff will break. I am assuming we are all in concensus to keep an eye on it. That's all. I am waiting to see if anything breaks. That's the only way to know. I hope it all stays together so you don't have to get another diff or rear halfshafts. You already spent a lot of money, way more than my swap.

Well, I am just waiting to see the driveability of this on the road with pump gas. Also, what the rpm range will be for useable power. Forget predicted power and power claims. Let's see the real dyno, the real driving in different road conditions, the real power delivery. Oh, and the real day to day living with the set-up. Let's see the turbo lag, the turbo rush, and the turbo scream. Keep up the project.

Thanks for giving us real cost numbers too.

Brandon FWIW this turbo has a WAY more appropriate exhaust housing than my former setup, and my former set up was fun on the street. Pump fuel is a relative term. I have 93 octane here, which I have been running 15 psi on 10:1 CR with. But, I also have methanol injection triggered at 4 psi. I don't know what numbers to believe, but I've heard methanol has an octane rating of nearly 126. So that gives you something to consider. The methanol spray is super cheap and super reliable and takes me several weeks of daily driving or one full weekend of hardcore driving to deplete and once its got its about $8 to refill.

Because the turbo is a .82 housing vs the holset which is probably closer to 1.06 or so, it will spool better, faster, and stronger. I will see ~20 - 25 psi by 4500 rpm (in 3rd) I suspect. I can change that turbo lag to ZERO with the click of a button. Spraying the nitrous will spool the turbo basically 100 rpm after I spray... so if I felt like pushing it, I could spray it at 2800 - 3000 rpm and have full boost moments later. Honestly diffs and axles are small potatoes in the grand scheme of things. The guys tracking their cars hardcore with slicks aren't breaking differentials, so I am not worried about it. Daily driving this will be a great car. It's going to have more torque due to a longer stroke than default and the turbo hot side being a normal gasoline turbo will have much better spool - I have friends with this turbo on 3.0L engines, it's great. The street driving aspect of the car will be non-issue. If you got in my laggy car now you'd not complain one bit. It's plenty fast!

You can see the differences in these turbos plainly looking at them. Notice how monsterous the hotside is on the Holset. You can't even see the 76mm hot side

http://blowneuroz.com/mygallery/Holset%20Sale/turbos.jpg


As for your cost on the S38 swap - eh. personally the s38 isn't my tea if NA. If turbo, yes that's the end all and will be my ultimate goal. But 315 bhp NA isn't enough for my taste.

[Sean H]

So... dyno numbers when it's all done, or no?

[Jon K]

Yep

[Macv]

http://blowneuroz.com/mygallery/Holset%20Sale/turbos.jpg


cute