Wheel balancing rant

[Ross]

Winfreds comment today has me revved up on this.
WTF, really WTF! is so hard about this that there is only ONE place I know of that can consistantly do it correctly?
Two days ago while at my tire installer (KO Tire for anyone in the Chicago burbs) and on the counter was 40, FORTY ounces of weights they had just removed from one set of wheels.
My beater has a near new set of tires installed by the PO at NTB, the &^$$ shakes like a mixmaster and is worse after they "corrected" it.
I see loads of weight on rims and just can't help but wonder why the installer hasn't thought to just reposition the tire on the rim?
Wrong or reused weights is common too.
What gives? Most stores with all there ******** fees are getting north of twenty bucks for a mount and balance. Is spending five minutes to do it right too much to ask?

[filip00]

wtf? weird.


here in croatia i spend $10 for a pair of wheels, montage and balancing the rim and the tyre. and they do the job excellent.

[winfred]

15-15.5 oz on one car tire is as close to a pound as i've found, you can always tell they don't know **** when theres weights on opposing sides of the same side of the wheel canceling one another out, if i can't do it with weight in one spot on each side of the rim i stop and figure out whats ****ed up, chasing the lump around the rim is just dumb, and with tape-a-weights it starts looking like a tile floor :D

[Tiger]

As I have done a fair share of my wheel balancing myself, I can tell you that most mechanic doesn't give a **** about it. To remount the tire is a hassle and not a 5 minutes job... more like 20 minutes each tire... to mount on balancer, spin, mark. dismount, break bead on both side, rotate around (not easy on low profiles sometime and for these, dismount and remount), pop the bead, refill air to 35... mount on balancer, spin, place weight, respin, and dismount.

That's a shitload of work to do. On newer machine, more expensive machine, they can do "economy" balance... which use alot less weight for the same quality (slightly lower)... using less weight cost shop alot less as lead or any wheel weight are gettin really pricy. Each time they reuse weight (as long it is in good condition and on the inside so customer don't see old weight)... they save about 20 cents... and counting how many tires they balance per year... that can be a large amount of money for tire shop.

[Bin_jammin]

I work in a shop and we reuse weights all the time. I don't see what's wrong with this, as long as the clamp is not damaged or bent, it's the same weight. A spin balancer doesn't care if a weight is new or old.

Also, if a tire takes more than a couple ounces the wheel is likely bent.

[BMWCCA1]

I used to balance my own wheels. I even taped stick-on weights in position to test-spin the result before committing to the orientation. I'd never end up with more than one weight location per plane on the rim. Recently I had two tires mounted and balanced on my kids' car (318ti) at a local Tire Rack Recommended installer. It was such a mess that I questioned the number and amount of weight used and was told that's what the machine called for. I later went back when I got a screw in one of those tires and asked them again if this was normal. They reacted as if I was questioning their integrity and, after having them mount and balance now seven tires with damage to three in the process (minor scuffs, paint missing from the bead-breaker, scratches in my E28 16" rims, etc), I've contacted Tire Rack and will fill out the rating for the installer. This is the picture of one of the 318ti wheel balance I sent to Tire Rack. Note how many locations (7) there are how much weight and you tell me if this is normal! I especially love the stick-on weight on the outer edge! This is a brand new Yoko tire on a straight original BMW 5-spoke rim with no previous balance problems.
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c378/BMWCCA1/DSC_0233.jpg

[filip00]

weights could fall off if they're on the outter edge, they should be inside the rim.

[ironie]

There's a old saying about paying peanuts and getting monkeys.
Finding good help for menal jobs is pretty hard these days, And I am sorry, but the guy in a chain changeing tires is a minimum wage job. You may stop sometime and consider the guy doing your brakes is probably not making much more.
The guy who patched a tire for me last week owned his own place and specialised in tires. He was reasonably priced and compedent, yet still managed to put two, abiet, small goueges in the lug holes where he mounted it to break it down. Not unacceptable, And I would be hard pressed to find someone better, but still just a touch short of satisfying.

Most smaller garages have a front guy you talk to, He looks like a mechanic, and at one time was, But handleing the customers is a skilled job too. So is being a con artist by the way...but...I digress. The dirty grub who is really going to do the work on your car you don't see much of, as he is likely under or in someone elses car, after all, he doesn't get paid to talk.
There are honest mechanics out there, But more often then not these days, they are retireing. They don't have the experience and/or tools and are more or less unwilling to lay out big money for the dianogstic equipment needed to deal with todays vehicles.
People don't seem to want to pay for skilled labor any more.
I gave up wrenching for welding and fabrication, and see the same problems Funny you don't want to pay the people who weld the things your life depends on, or fix your brakes...
But just let a low paid monkey do a crap job balacening your wheels and listen to the moaning...
The world gets odder every day.

No offense intended to any low paid monkeys out there

[winfred]

OOOO i love the tape-a-weights on the bead of the rim, that's extra special. the bosses kid just started working at pep boys doing tires and one of the free one time rebalance/rotates came in, he started balancing all of the wheels and one of the grunts came over and told him the pep boys way that's done, balance the rears and put em on the front and just put the fronts on the rear untouched, and in general if you get it with in a quarter on the first spin it's good ta go


]http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c378/BMWCCA1/DSC_0233.jpg

[Tiger]

Jeez! From the look of it, their balancer is bad. I been through that before.

[winfred]

no, theres something of a art doing tape on weights on a older balancer espcially if you don't put them on the outer edge of the rim, as that's where the machine calculates the weight to be, if you put them inside the spokes you gotta judge somewhere from 30-50% more weight or you will chase that bitch around the rim all day, dummys will do that, one day i said **** this and either static balance it and put all of the weights on the back or just stick them on the front (yet to have anybody bitch, and don't really care if they do)


Jeez! From the look of it, their balancer is bad. I been through that before.

[Tiger]

LOL... yeah I know what you meant. Even with older machine, they are pretty much on target when you use thei alloy mode... like on your Coats wheel balancer. The alloy mode knows you will be putting weight on the inside of outer edge... they calculated at 80% of the width. This is accurate enough for most wheels unless you got super super deep dish.

I had no problem balancing with older machine until it went haywire that you cannot even balance with normal mode with normal weight on both edge. We had the Coat service guy come and fix it... $450 later and it is still not right... only lasted like 1 day... so we said **** it... bought a new machine at Greg Smith Equipments... and bam... zero problem.

[Barney Paull-Edwards]

Like I said months ago, balance wheels, then add tyres,too much weight, rotate, and dont pay until job is right. from what I`ve seen lately the quality of wheels is going down the drain, Got a set for mud tyres, looked Ok and cheap but 11oz to balance a bare wheel? Refused to buy ordered set as not fit for use, would rather buy OEM wheels for junk yard, at least they were made properly. Local Car club has a machine for members but cannot bring myself to join rice-burner club!