:: Koni adjustable struts

[Qube]

Rears were installed a while back, set on 'halfway'. Fronts installed yesterday and set 180deg from softest. DAMN!

When I backed out of the driveway, I had to do a doubletake... I didn't feel the curb transition! Although I had an idea of how hard the ride was before (Billie HDs on Vogtlands), I never realized it was so much.

Even on the firmest setting, it still is a nudge or two nicer than the billies. Right now, I'm going on the softest setting and pulling back bit by bit to find a sweet spot. Of course, there is noticeably more body roll there. Didn't compare firmest setting yet though.

[gale]

Ditto, I have always loved Koni's. I went from worn stock Boges to Bilsteins to new Boges and finally to Koni's. Firm when dialed in for the twisties with M-tech springs & sways yet comfortable & civilized on our 3rd world Albuquerque city streets. What more could you want?

[Jon K]

Dunno - koni's are known to leak. Whats the point in adjusting them to soft when you upgrade to a "sport" suspension - that what I have always wondered. If it were in my car, it be on "firm" all the time... and then I'd wonder why I bought adjustable shocks.

[GoldenOne]

Dunno - koni's are known to leak. Whats the point in adjusting them to soft when you upgrade to a "sport" suspension - that what I have always wondered. If it were in my car, it be on "firm" all the time... and then I'd wonder why I bought adjustable shocks.

i bought mine (havent had time to put them in yet) for the reason that I dont race or drive spirited everytime I go out. It nice that you can firm them up when you know youre going out to the track...but thats my 2 cents..

[txp135]

I wanted to get koni too but it's only practical to adjust the front. Then I heard that they don't last that long. Plus they cost more so it gave me less incentive to try them. And most of the comparisons are of new shocks vs. beat up ones so I didn't know what the real story was. Hopefully you can compare your new koni vs. someone with new stock to give the rest of us a better idea next time we change these. Glad you are enjoying them.

[paintpro21]

Wow, there is some serious mis information about Koni's in here.

Koni's will almost never leak. I know there was a batch of e36 rears that did but I would never ever describe koni's as prone to leakage. I would say that about Bilstien shocks though. but the average Bilstien owner won't notice. because they are a "sealed design" which just means that they leak out of the shock body and is then contained in the boot; soaking the bump stop and making the ride horribly rough. koni's are the best shocks for our car and one of the best options for damn near any car until you start to compare highly adjustble coilover setups. and even if they do leak. they have a lifetime warranty, just get it replaced.

the single adjustables are rebound adjustable. even set on soft they are doing a great job at dampaning. my e30 m3 track/autocross car runs on Koni's and for both events I run it 1/4 turn from full soft.

We've put koni's kyb's and bilstiens onto almost everything and the koni's are always hands down the best. (except on trucks, surprisingly rancho shocks feel the best on trucks lol).

both my boss and I run koni on everything and we recommend it for everything. I'm picking up a 540i/6 this week and they'll be getting a set too.

you get what you pay for. a friend with a beautiful 540ia went with the bilstiens to save a little bit, and then came back complaining about ride quality.

[Jon K]

Wow, there is some serious mis information about Koni's in here.

Koni's will almost never leak. I know there was a batch of e36 rears that did but I would never ever describe koni's as prone to leakage. I would say that about Bilstien shocks though. but the average Bilstien owner won't notice. because they are a "sealed design" which just means that they leak out of the shock body and is then contained in the boot; soaking the bump stop and making the ride horribly rough. koni's are the best shocks for our car and one of the best options for damn near any car until you start to compare highly adjustble coilover setups. and even if they do leak. they have a lifetime warranty, just get it replaced.

the single adjustables are rebound adjustable. even set on soft they are doing a great job at dampaning. my e30 m3 track/autocross car runs on Koni's and for both events I run it 1/4 turn from full soft.

We've put koni's kyb's and bilstiens onto almost everything and the koni's are always hands down the best. (except on trucks, surprisingly rancho shocks feel the best on trucks lol).

both my boss and I run koni on everything and we recommend it for everything. I'm picking up a 540i/6 this week and they'll be getting a set too.

you get what you pay for. a friend with a beautiful 540ia went with the bilstiens to save a little bit, and then came back complaining about ride quality.


With 3 posts you're saying there is misinformation in this thread? I have put Koni's on 3 bmws one was an E34, 2 of them failed. There have been NUMEROUS posts on here about leaking Koni's. Search bf.c's track thread and you'll find the same.

I hardly consider bilstein suspension a means to "save a few". KYB shocks, monroes, etc., yeah they are attempting to save a few bucks... but bilstein is a LONG-trusted brand and I have only ever seen 1 blown bilstein shock in all of my endeavors. Rebound dampening shocks are great for... well... 1/2 of the control you actually need. And, setting an adjustable shock to a setting while not matching it to a spring is a good way of having a car that is not very well balanced. Bilstein has a lifetime warranty as well. Koni shocks are not the end-all be-all shock for our cars... in fact, given the past failure rate and the reluctance of users to actually adjust the suspension much I always advise friends who ask me to stick to a fixed valve shock.

[BigKriss]

I've said this in the past, the the manufacturer koni recommends to set them on soft and to stiffen them up when they start wearing out. The only person on here I can remember with leaking shocks is Anthony M5 in Calgary. They are the best shocks for the e34. I would definitely buy them again.

[attack eagle]

comfortable & civilized on our 3rd world Albuquerque city streets.

I finally know where the famous gale is from...

Big wavey from the EPT gale! :wave:

I'm perfectly happy with my Billies and UUC progressives.
Firm enough to feel the road well, yet cushy enough NOT to beat me up when I drive 1200 miles to the 'rents, especially over the quite uneven pavement in Louisiana or down on the Gulf coast post Katrina.
YMMV though.

[paintpro21]

With 3 posts you're saying there is misinformation in this thread? I have put Koni's on 3 bmws one was an E34, 2 of them failed. There have been NUMEROUS posts on here about leaking Koni's. Search bf.c's track thread and you'll find the same.

I hardly consider bilstein suspension a means to "save a few". KYB shocks, monroes, etc., yeah they are attempting to save a few bucks... but bilstein is a LONG-trusted brand and I have only ever seen 1 blown bilstein shock in all of my endeavors. Rebound dampening shocks are great for... well... 1/2 of the control you actually need. And, setting an adjustable shock to a setting while not matching it to a spring is a good way of having a car that is not very well balanced. Bilstein has a lifetime warranty as well. Koni shocks are not the end-all be-all shock for our cars... in fact, given the past failure rate and the reluctance of users to actually adjust the suspension much I always advise friends who ask me to stick to a fixed valve shock.

I don't post here often. I'm a member of 10 or so other forums, and I've been on forums for almost 8 years. but thanks for pointing that out.

you don't see bilstiens blow out the same way other shocks do. as I already stated they internally leak. it doesn't leave the body but the shock has failed. the oil soaks and hardens the bump stop. you just don't visually see it. Their dampening is inferior incomparison to koni's for ride comfort while still providing performance. From our Distribution center that supports performance tuner shops we ship out 1 set of bilstiens for every 100 koni's if even that. We are the place they get sent back to when they go bad (customer gives to shop, shop gives to us, we give to koni). its a very rare occurance.

I would consider bilstiens since they are cheap and I may through them on my daily driver be for I sell them, but on my good cars I put koni. By all means get bilstiens, they feel very different though. I just won't sit here listen to people say there is no need for adjustment and that they leak, because they are uninformed.

if it's only coming down to price comparison because a buyer has no experience with the products and no other reasonable features to compare then they go with seems to be forum gossip.

If you'd want koni's but the price is your consern then please PM me and maybe I can help you out.

[Jon K]

I don't post here often. I'm a member of 10 or so other forums, and I've been on forums for almost 8 years. but thanks for pointing that out.

you don't see bilstiens blow out the same way other shocks do. as I already stated they internally leak. it doesn't leave the body but the shock has failed. the oil soaks and hardens the bump stop. you just don't visually see it. Their dampening is inferior incomparison to koni's for ride comfort while still providing performance. From our Distribution center that supports performance tuner shops we ship out 1 set of bilstiens for every 100 koni's if even that. We are the place they get sent back to when they go bad (customer gives to shop, shop gives to us, we give to koni). its a very rare occurance.

I would consider bilstiens since they are cheap and I may through them on my daily driver be for I sell them, but on my good cars I put koni. By all means get bilstiens, they feel very different though. I just won't sit here listen to people say there is no need for adjustment and that they leak, because they are uninformed.

if it's only coming down to price comparison because a buyer has no experience with the products and no other reasonable features to compare then they go with seems to be forum gossip.

If you'd want koni's but the price is your consern then please PM me and maybe I can help you out.


so you sell to imports and that's your basis -- koni's are cheaper for honda/acura/subaru/mitsu so that doesn't surprise me in the least.

I have personally seen a handful of Koni failures, I have seen ONE bilstein failure. "They leak internally and the bump stop..." yeah ok. It's a shock buddy - they all "faily" -- bouncy ride, no dampening... I'll take my "chances" and continue to use bilstein struts on the oh... 50 cars I work on ;)

[paintpro21]

by tuner shop I mean non big-O shops. we ship to shops that modify cars. koni's are primarly being used on european cars because they tend to be more willing to spend the money. if somebody has it on a civic its not good enough for your car?

The shock body is mounted upside down. when they leak the oil is held inside the boot down below where the bump stop is. it soaks the bump stop and drastically changes its dampening rate along with the shock already not dampening as much as it had before.

http://www.yozzasport.co.uk/store/prodimages/bilstein/yozzasport_p_img_med_tube_designs.gif

you can see how the shock is designed, that when it does fail the oil will remain inside the other end of the shock. on a koni that is the top and it would flow out and dribble over the side.

I own a $3500 factory grp. N coilover kit for my e30 m3 and its made by bilstein. It's no longer on the car and I use simple koni inserts with a Ground Control sleeves and camber plates now. want to buy my bilsteins ;)

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b388/paintpro21/e30%20m3/allpartstogether.jpg

[Jon K]

You missed my point royally - import cars are more plentifully - supply vs demand. I can buy '02 STI koni struts for $176 a pair... locally! Koni struts for our cars are MORE than bilstein... its supply vs demand.

BMW used bilstein from the factory on you group n kit, and you think there is a flaw with it? The bump stop is internal - big deal. If your strut leaks and soaks the bump stop you have bigger issues than a soggy/deteriorating bumpstop! Your cylinder will have a pressure loss and fail... I dunno how you drive but I sure as hell notice a blown strut before I noticed a messed up bump stop.

Either way, you like your Koni struts that's fine... but you're honestly saying you prefer the Koni/GC combo over the Bilstein Grp N units and I am just sitting over here rolling on the floor laughing. I have numerous E30 friends who track their cars and they are nothing but disappointed/mad/hate/swear at their GC setups.

[paintpro21]

you missed my point royally too. but I guess since you have 4k posts you know everything.

supply vs demand (PRICE!!) doesn't make one funtionally better then the other. people buy **** all the time, and then swear by it because they bought it. The leakage which effects the dampening rate is a given, I didn't know I had to point that out to you. I'm saying people think bilsteins don't leak because they visually (with their eyes) don't see the leakage. and those same people keep driving on the shocks praising them.

What exactly makes my grp. n kit better then my koni kit? becuase it's cool? what factual or benchmark number could you use to gurantee that the bilstein setup would be better for my car then what I'm running now?

I've tried the different setups, and we've mounted them on all sorts of vehicles, and I say what I say because I've seen it and done it instead of spread all sorts of news that people hear from a friend of a friend who knew someone.

If you can't understand what my initial intention was then I'm sorry for you. And again if cost is so much of a factor then I swear I could supply anybody here with koni's for cheaper then anywhere on the net just so that they can't say that was the reason they went with something else.

[Jon K]

you missed my point royally too. but I guess since you have 4k posts you know everything.

supply vs demand (PRICE!!) doesn't make one funtionally better then the other. people buy **** all the time, and then swear by it because they bought it. The leakage which effects the dampening rate is a given, I didn't know I had to point that out to you. I'm saying people think bilsteins don't leak because they visually (with their eyes) don't see the leakage. and those same people keep driving on the shocks praising them.

What exactly makes my grp. n kit better then my koni kit? becuase it's cool? what factual or benchmark number could you use to gurantee that the bilstein setup would be better for my car then what I'm running now?

I've tried the different setups, and we've mounted them on all sorts of vehicles, and I say what I say because I've seen it and done it instead of spread all sorts of news that people hear from a friend of a friend who knew someone.

If you can't understand what my initial intention was then I'm sorry for you. And again if cost is so much of a factor then I swear I could supply anybody here with koni's for cheaper then anywhere on the net just so that they can't say that was the reason they went with something else.

Yes I am right because I have 4,000 posts -- right on hot shot!

You're right, Koni is the end all be all. Leave it to Porsche Cup racing teams to run Bilsteins, right? GC pseudo coil over kit vs a Grp. N matched setup? RIDICULOUS statement. Using an argument that I would say the coilover setup is better because "its cool" is a riot - you're right man on every account. Now if you'd politely STFU and GTFO of here, and stop turning this thread into your own private advertisement, we'd all prob appreciate it :)

I am calling Bilstein now and telling them stop production on their product because "PaintPro21" said their units leak inside and no one can tell! ****! We're all dead!

[attack eagle]

My favorite Koni attribute is that there is as much as a 20% difference in valving between identical part numbered units when tested on a shock dyno.

Just ask dennis grant.

[paintpro21]

Yes I am right because I have 4,000 posts -- right on hot shot!

You're right, Koni is the end all be all. Leave it to Porsche Cup racing teams to run Bilsteins, right? GC pseudo coil over kit vs a Grp. N matched setup? RIDICULOUS statement. Using an argument that I would say the coilover setup is better because "its cool" is a riot - you're right man on every account. Now if you'd politely STFU and GTFO of here, and stop turning this thread into your own private advertisement, we'd all prob appreciate it :)

I am calling Bilstein now and telling them stop production on their product because "PaintPro21" said their units leak inside and no one can tell! ****! We're all dead!

instead of talking more **** why don't you actually state something useful. just try it once. Why don't you explain why the grp n is better instead of talking about how it makes you rofl. Please educate me and prove me wrong and I'll gladly appologize and change my views. As of right now I am unimpressed by anything you have said and how you just twist subjects and avoid direct questions.

[Jon K]

instead of talking more **** why don't you actually state something useful. just try it once. Why don't you explain why the grp n is better instead of talking about how it makes you rofl. Please educate me and prove me wrong and I'll gladly appologize and change my views. As of right now I am unimpressed by anything you have said and how you just twist subjects and avoid direct questions.

The truth is I have better things to do with my time than to sit online and ******** about which strut is better - instead, I am installing them in cars and not throwing my fist in the air claiming to sell ____ many units to ____ company. Koni are very poorly matched, very shoddy valving, and on an E30 325 we built, requiring adequate suspension to handle the 500 whp the car delivers, we took OUT koni's and put IN bilsteins, because of shitty damper rates even in firmest of firm. Not to mention with a built 40% lock up differential and only about 1500 miles, one tire was worn "choppy" like versus the other... then when we had the shocks off of the car you could notably tell between the two shocks yet each one was adjusted to full stiff. Setting the one to almost full, and the other to full, they were more equal. Yeah, perfect! Btw, owner has GC coil over adapter kit like you and hates it - handles horrible compared to the H&R Ultra Low matched coil over setup he had formerly. Sad.


NO THANKS!

[txp135]

Afterwards, could everyone please go over to this thread?

http://www.bimmer.info/forum/showthread.php?t=33509

[Booster]

I've ran Kono's,Bilsteins,KYB's.Tein on my track turbo Datsun Z for years.
I've found that ALL of them had "out of the box" variances in initial valving. Mass production,go figure.:(
The Konis did please me the most over time.I am hoping to get a great deal on them for the E34 in the near future.
All the other above brands failed prematurely whilst sitting or in use.Bummer.
I'll be running AC Schnitzer sport springs.....so I hope the Koni's work well in partnership.
Jon K....I think your drinks are over-caffienated.Lol.:p
Vinny

[nixter]

Check out the M5board. You'll end up with Koni's. I did and I'm very satisfied. Those guys know their s**t

n

[Turbo Ready]

I have sold and installed Koni Single Adjustable shocks on various BMW's and have never seen a leak or had a leak complaint as yet.

I installed a Ground Control Coilover kit with Koni SA on a customers race car about 6 weeks ago and have not seen a leak as yet after he raced the car in 6-7 events. He drives the car to some events and I would guesstimate around 3000km on the new set up. He drives the car VERY aggressively and also competes in Auto X events, no leaks so far with the Konis.

Incidentally, he was running a Hartge kit with the Billis HD and the two front ones were leaking and one was finished, they were about 3 years old.

There has been leak reports as Jon said, but I am hearing less about it. I was told that they do leak a little at the beginning and then stop and that this is normal.

I know and deal with the company PaintPro21 is affiliated with and in all honestly, their company carries both the Billies and the Knois. His boss races and is quite knowledgeable about the various set up for the different BMW models.

I asked him for his advice on shock manufacturers and he spent over 1/2hr with me discussing the pros and cons between the two. He recommended Koni and as I said before he carries the Billis too, so it's not a case where he was trying to get the sale.

I guess the debate will go on forever since we all have had different experiences and moreover, different preferences between the two manufacturers.

[paintpro21]

Thank you for the input guys. All I wanted to originally point out was that koni's do not leak as much as people say. It's an incorrect stereotype and statistically incorrect. Some people might get unlucky but when you have millions of shocks there must be leaks. The second point I was trying to make was that the vast majority of people do not know that because bilstein uses an inverted strut design, that you will not visually see the shock leak. You may feel it loose its dampening but it makes fore poor comparison. A small leak in a koni is evident vs the invisible leak on a bilstein. I'm sure I will use bilstiens in the future because they very much have their place. I'm not running them on my track car but things could change.