Hydraulic valve Lifters

[Danny]

My 525i with M50 engine rattles on start up, but this noise goes after about 30 seconds.
My local BMw dealer reckons it might be the Hydraulic valve lifters making the noise before enough oil gets to them.
I have had the oil changed which reduced the noise a bit, but hasent eliminated it entirely.
Its worse when it's a cold morning.
Anyone heard of this, or no anything about these valve lifters and if they are replaceable?

[Jr ///M5]

Danny,

I've got a 318iS that would do the same thing when I was running Mobil 1 15w50. This was the oil that was required for the little 16 valve 4 cylinder. It would definately rattle a couple of the lifters on startup when the temperatures were very cold. I would shut it off immediately, re-start it and the sound would be gone.

This winter, I switched to Mobil 1 0w40 European type oil, and not once did the lifters make any noise on startup all winter long.

I would try the Mobil One 0w40 in her, not only did it stop the start up lifter noise, but it also seemed to make the engine run smoother and spin up quicker.

If the Mobil One 0w40 European Type oil doesn't fix the problem, then you have lifters that are sticking and are having trouble pumping up. The thinner 0w40 synthetic will flow easier and with the cleaning capability of Mobil 1, might flush out the lifters. It's certainly worth the $30 for an oil change (if you do your own) before you go tearing into the engine.

Jr

[Rick L]

Same thing... I agree with JR. Try Mobil 1 0W-40 or BMW Synthetic 5W-30. Also a friend told me you could pickup a gas additive from BMW dealer. It's in a blue container and I believe it is called "Boost ***"... something like that.



My 525i with M50 engine rattles on start up, but this noise goes after about 30 seconds.
My local BMw dealer reckons it might be the Hydraulic valve lifters making the noise before enough oil gets to them.
I have had the oil changed which reduced the noise a bit, but hasent eliminated it entirely.
Its worse when it's a cold morning.
Anyone heard of this, or no anything about these valve lifters and if they are replaceable?

[Dick Schneiders]

being driven on the highway for awhile. Once it starts the noise is constant and very loud, and it is worse when accelerating. The noise will continue until the car is shut down for an hour or so. There is very little lifter noise on startup and that goes away immediately. When the car is only driven in town, the noise never appears even if the car is driven for a long time.

It is so loud that whenever we come back to town after driving on the highway, I don't like driving anywhere with it until we can get it home and shut down for awhile. It is very embarrassing - maybe I should get a "diesel" emblem put on the car. :(

I had been using Mobil 1 10w-30 and recently changed it to 15w-50. That seemed to lessen the noise, but it is still there.

Any thoughts or suggestions as to what I need to do?

Thanks,

Dick Schneiders

Danny,

I've got a 318iS that would do the same thing when I was running Mobil 1 15w50. This was the oil that was required for the little 16 valve 4 cylinder. It would definately rattle a couple of the lifters on startup when the temperatures were very cold. I would shut it off immediately, re-start it and the sound would be gone.

This winter, I switched to Mobil 1 0w40 European type oil, and not once did the lifters make any noise on startup all winter long.

I would try the Mobil One 0w40 in her, not only did it stop the start up lifter noise, but it also seemed to make the engine run smoother and spin up quicker.

If the Mobil One 0w40 European Type oil doesn't fix the problem, then you have lifters that are sticking and are having trouble pumping up. The thinner 0w40 synthetic will flow easier and with the cleaning capability of Mobil 1, might flush out the lifters. It's certainly worth the $30 for an oil change (if you do your own) before you go tearing into the engine.

Jr

[molesz]

I have an M50B20 '91 engine and the same problem. I have tryed everything: oil grade changes, half-synthetics, ful synthetics, fuel additives, engine oil additives and nothing but just a slight changes. Recently I found that a German manufacturer Liqui Molly has produced an engine oil additive which is designed for the problem we got. It suppose to clean all the tiny oil paths arround the lifters and help faster oil circulation.
Have anybody saw how small are the holes and paths from where the lifters are supplied with engone oil? I have seen it ... everything is really tiny and a small dirt particles can really mess up our life.
I have ordered one can ... I'll report what is the efect.

[Warren N.CA]

Danny,

I've got a 318iS that would do the same thing when I was running Mobil 1 15w50. This was the oil that was required for the little 16 valve 4 cylinder. It would definately rattle a couple of the lifters on startup when the temperatures were very cold. I would shut it off immediately, re-start it and the sound would be gone.

This winter, I switched to Mobil 1 0w40 European type oil, and not once did the lifters make any noise on startup all winter long.

I would try the Mobil One 0w40 in her, not only did it stop the start up lifter noise, but it also seemed to make the engine run smoother and spin up quicker.

If the Mobil One 0w40 European Type oil doesn't fix the problem, then you have lifters that are sticking and are having trouble pumping up. The thinner 0w40 synthetic will flow easier and with the cleaning capability of Mobil 1, might flush out the lifters. It's certainly worth the $30 for an oil change (if you do your own) before you go tearing into the engine.

Jr

[Bill R.]

tech bulletins are what is happening to your car when its warmed up on the highway....
http://www.bimmernut.com/%7Ebillr/images/Dickslifterrattle.jpg


OR this one.....

http://www.bimmernut.com/%7Ebillr/images/Dickslifterrattle2.jpg















being driven on the highway for awhile. Once it starts the noise is constant and very loud, and it is worse when accelerating. The noise will continue until the car is shut down for an hour or so. There is very little lifter noise on startup and that goes away immediately. When the car is only driven in town, the noise never appears even if the car is driven for a long time.

It is so loud that whenever we come back to town after driving on the highway, I don't like driving anywhere with it until we can get it home and shut down for awhile. It is very embarrassing - maybe I should get a "diesel" emblem put on the car. :(

I had been using Mobil 1 10w-30 and recently changed it to 15w-50. That seemed to lessen the noise, but it is still there.

Any thoughts or suggestions as to what I need to do?

Thanks,

Dick Schneiders

[Dick Schneiders]

but have really not learned how to use it very well. I use the ETK and Repair Manual discs a lot, but just never got deeply into the TIS.

I think I need to start playing around with it as you keep coming up with pertinent stuff from it.

Thanks,

Dick Schneiders


tech bulletins are what is happening to your car when its warmed up on the highway....
http://www.bimmernut.com/%7Ebillr/images/Dickslifterrattle.jpg


OR this one.....

http://www.bimmernut.com/%7Ebillr/images/Dickslifterrattle2.jpg

[Danny]

Thanks Jr I will try this as soon as the shops open.



Danny,

I've got a 318iS that would do the same thing when I was running Mobil 1 15w50. This was the oil that was required for the little 16 valve 4 cylinder. It would definately rattle a couple of the lifters on startup when the temperatures were very cold. I would shut it off immediately, re-start it and the sound would be gone.

This winter, I switched to Mobil 1 0w40 European type oil, and not once did the lifters make any noise on startup all winter long.

I would try the Mobil One 0w40 in her, not only did it stop the start up lifter noise, but it also seemed to make the engine run smoother and spin up quicker.

If the Mobil One 0w40 European Type oil doesn't fix the problem, then you have lifters that are sticking and are having trouble pumping up. The thinner 0w40 synthetic will flow easier and with the cleaning capability of Mobil 1, might flush out the lifters. It's certainly worth the $30 for an oil change (if you do your own) before you go tearing into the engine.

Jr

[Danny]

I am going to try Jr solution first and see if that makes any difference, but I would be interested to hear how you get on with the Liqui Moli.


I have an M50B20 '91 engine and the same problem. I have tryed everything: oil grade changes, half-synthetics, ful synthetics, fuel additives, engine oil additives and nothing but just a slight changes. Recently I found that a German manufacturer Liqui Molly has produced an engine oil additive which is designed for the problem we got. It suppose to clean all the tiny oil paths arround the lifters and help faster oil circulation.
Have anybody saw how small are the holes and paths from where the lifters are supplied with engone oil? I have seen it ... everything is really tiny and a small dirt particles can really mess up our life.
I have ordered one can ... I'll report what is the efect.

[Danny]

Thanks for all the help, just started using this forum and I am thankful for everyones help.


I am going to try Jr solution first and see if that makes any difference, but I would be interested to hear how you get on with the Liqui Moli.

[Jake]

Generally, when a hydraulic tappet begins to rattle on a high mileage engine you might be able to prolong the inevitable and try replacing the oil and adding all your favorite additives. But at some point we have to face the facts and replace what is obviously a worn tappet.

As for the missing O ring causing it to rattle, again, if it's something that has developed over a period of time, and this is on a high mileage engine, it's most likely not a missing O ring. Something like this would reveal itself much earlier in its life, if not within the first 10K miles. In other words, that O ring doesn't suddenly go missing, it's not there from the get go.

It's best to first determine if it's just one tappet or all of them. They generally fail one at a time, however, if they're all noisey this may indicate a problem with the oiling system. Once more, if you have a high mileage engine and you can determine that you only have one or two bad tappets, most likely those tappets are simply ready for replacement due to wear.

To determine if you only have one tappet going bad, find/buy yourself an automotive stethoscope (the one with the long metal rod for probing). With the engine cold and rattling as you describe, carfully probe each cylinder on the intake and exhaust side.

On the exhaust side of each cylinder, touch the probe to the exhaust manifold (careful, it's hot!) as close to the cylinder head as you can. Even touch it to the manifold studs on the head. Those studs act as an extension to your stethoscope and get you closer to what's happening inside.

The intake side is a bit less effective because the M50's plastic manifold sort of dampens the acoustics. Nevertheless, try each cylinder on the intake side as well. Same as the exhaust side, try the intake manifold/cylinder head studs as well; they may give you the best indications of what that cylinder is doing.

You will be able to clearly determine which tappet/tappets are noisy using this method and then only replace what you need to. Lifters from BMW aren't really all that terribly expensive at around $25 each for the M50. So if you can carry out the work yourself, $25 is probably cheaper than all the attempts to prolong its replacement. How much would you spend on mystery additives before you just replaced it anyway?

Dick Schneiders:

Your problem is a bit more serious I fear. You don't have any start up rattle but instead it reveals itself at highway speeds and becomes embarrassingly loud. You need to get this into a shop soon and find out what the problem is. To me, it sounds like the beginning signs of an oil pressure problem. When it's cold you don't hear it because the oil is thicker which of course gives you a bit more oil pressure.

In your case, this may actually be a problem with your oil pump as Bill R hints to. I don't mean to point out the obvious, but this isn't something you can let go for very long before permanent damage occurs.

Regards,
Jake Larsen

[Dick Schneiders]

in the sequence of VIN's that should have the missing O-ring. Also, this engine was replaced at 70,000 miles (about 50,000 miles ago) because of a warranty issue with the radiator.

I will have the oil pressure and oil pump checked out right away. Wouldn't the oil pressure warning come on if there was low oil pressure?

Dick Schneiders




As for the missing O ring causing it to rattle, again, if it's something that has developed over a period of time, and this is on a high mileage engine, it's most likely not a missing O ring. Something like this would reveal itself much earlier in its life, if not within the first 10K miles. In other words, that O ring doesn't suddenly go missing, it's not there from the get go.

Dick Schneiders:

Your problem is a bit more serious I fear. You don't have any start up rattle but instead it reveals itself at highway speeds and becomes embarrassingly loud. You need to get this into a shop soon and find out what the problem is. To me, it sounds like the beginning signs of an oil pressure problem. When it's cold you don't hear it because the oil is thicker which of course gives you a bit more oil pressure.

In your case, this may actually be a problem with your oil pump as Bill R hints to. I don't mean to point out the obvious, but this isn't something you can let go for very long before permanent damage occurs.

Regards,
Jake Larsen

[winfred]

the switch only reads about 5 psi

[Bill R.]

either the oring has gone bad or the gasket on the pump pick up is sucking air.. my money's on the pump pickup gasket... But since you have to go in there anyway I'd put a new pump on at the same time.






in the sequence of VIN's that should have the missing O-ring. Also, this engine was replaced at 70,000 miles (about 50,000 miles ago) because of a warranty issue with the radiator.

I will have the oil pressure and oil pump checked out right away. Wouldn't the oil pressure warning come on if there was low oil pressure?

Dick Schneiders