A really important POLL

[Kalevera]

Now I'm really getting down to it. Fiona - my touring - is at the body shop getting cleaned up and when she comes back, I want to get started with the swap.

In case you missed it -- http://www.bimmer.info/forum/showthread.php?t=30854


I still haven't decided what to do yet. Here's what's transpired.


- S62/6 is a nice idea, but turns out to be unrealistic at this point. Autosport wants 15 GRAND for their kit (!), and the guy on eBay wants 6. I'm not about to pay 6 gees for an engine/trans with questionable history that needs MAFs/DME/EWS modules right off the bat. Also, S62 oil consumption is a big issue, as is vanos noise and the fact that the dealers seem to replace a LOT of these motors for expensive reasons. So the S62 is out, unless I stumble on a deal.


- I have an M60 6 speed kit, I also have the B40 alusil motor in my parts car. This is the cheapest possible solution, with the most bang for the buck, but it's still not that exciting to me.


- I'm still thinking about an M70. The 6 speed transmission is $4400 and the engine would cost around two grand if I can find the right car. The killer expensive parts are the flywheel/clutch. Right off the bat, I'd be spending around 2 times as much on parts to do this as the M60 swap and I'd go over my budget for the car. The novelty factor is sweet, though, and I think the car would be more desirable in the long run.


- I know I said the S5x swap was pretty much out of the question, but then this wrecked out E36 with an S52 showed up. I'd need to throw at least $500 at the motor to get it operational. And the trans is a ZF munchbox, unknown quality. But I could own the car for $2500.

Some other possibilities have popped up -- an M106 turbo motor and a complete S38B38 kit. The M106 doesn't do it for me, and the S38B38 would be poseur.

So, with these options, what would you do if you were in my shoes and wanted to build an alternative to importing an M5T?

[Ross]

M70 and gearbox!!!
You've a lot of balls going to the bodyshop before such a project, I would need one after to fix all the damage to the fenders.

[BigKriss]

why doesn't a m106 do it for you?

[shanek]

The S62 would be the most impressive, but I don't think the expense and hassle would be worth it. M70 would be very cool, but I have to vote for the M60. Its the most practical choice, which may be kind of boring, but the best bang for the buck is what sells me on it. Leaves more money for wheels, tires or whatever else you want to do her.

[markus]

sell me ur 6 speed trans

[spyrot1]

who is Winfred?

[632 Regal]

I couldnt tell you, I have heard this since I joined...must be some kind of insiders joke or something :p
who is Winfred?

[Kalevera]

sell me ur 6 speed trans
It looks like it is tentatively for sale. Flywheel, pressure plate, pivot arm included. Clutch had a 2000 date stamp on it. Bench shifts great into all 7 gears, turns smoothly, drained the fluid and it had ZERO filings.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v736/suzpectx/6speed1.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v736/suzpectx/6speed2.jpg

[Kalevera]

Because one is making its way into Fritz and I'm not so interested in doing that kind of swap on another car. I'd have to fab a custom motor mount, find a trans/flywheel, find the correct power steering pump. It's more work than I want to do for 255 HP out of the box. I can do the M60 swap, have the engine bay look clean and factory, and get more power out of the gate with less aggravation.

[632 Regal]

Whit, that trans looks sweet! no dark leakage, it could be a great start too!

[Nick.Hay]

V12 FTW!!!

That would be sooo ****in' sweet!!! :D :D

[MTechnik540i]

I think the idea of the M70 would be really, very cool.

Honestly though, I'd opt for a M60 w/ a Blower.




Now I'm really getting down to it. Fiona - my touring - is at the body shop getting cleaned up and when she comes back, I want to get started with the swap.

In case you missed it -- http://www.bimmer.info/forum/showthread.php?t=30854


I still haven't decided what to do yet. Here's what's transpired.


- S62/6 is a nice idea, but turns out to be unrealistic at this point. Autosport wants 15 GRAND for their kit (!), and the guy on eBay wants 6. I'm not about to pay 6 gees for an engine/trans with questionable history that needs MAFs/DME/EWS modules right off the bat. Also, S62 oil consumption is a big issue, as is vanos noise and the fact that the dealers seem to replace a LOT of these motors for expensive reasons. So the S62 is out, unless I stumble on a deal.


- I have an M60 6 speed kit, I also have the B40 alusil motor in my parts car. This is the cheapest possible solution, with the most bang for the buck, but it's still not that exciting to me.


- I'm still thinking about an M70. The 6 speed transmission is $4400 and the engine would cost around two grand if I can find the right car. The killer expensive parts are the flywheel/clutch. Right off the bat, I'd be spending around 2 times as much on parts to do this as the M60 swap and I'd go over my budget for the car. The novelty factor is sweet, though, and I think the car would be more desirable in the long run.


- I know I said the S5x swap was pretty much out of the question, but then this wrecked out E36 with an S52 showed up. I'd need to throw at least $500 at the motor to get it operational. And the trans is a ZF munchbox, unknown quality. But I could own the car for $2500.

Some other possibilities have popped up -- an M106 turbo motor and a complete S38B38 kit. The M106 doesn't do it for me, and the S38B38 would be poseur.

So, with these options, what would you do if you were in my shoes and wanted to build an alternative to importing an M5T?

[Paul in NZ]

would that 6 speed trans work with the M70?.
The M70 has oodles of tourque and untold potential.....they are very low stressed,but i guess the driveline becomes the problem.What trans package did the 850 manual use...?

[Anton CH.]

So I am guessing an S54 is out of the question as well? Should be a quick revving, high power engine. Prices are starting to come down on them I think too.

Personally I am bit biased towards smaller but more efficient high revving motors, even in something as heavy as the e34.

[CharlesAFerg]

Can the M70 really handle heavy performance driving? I mean... look at the 750il... With that extra stress comes what... another "horror story" website?

I think it would be the smoothest ride, but if you're looking for fun wouldn't it be the least feasible option?

V-12 with not much horsepower for it's size (stock). It's just two M20s smushed together and reduced. :(

I don't know, I wouldn't fall for the glory of it for a sports car, only for a nice smooth luxury car.

S62 man.

[Boom n Zoom]

but I'd go with the M60/6 conversion, having said that if a late model (2000 and on) S62 and 6 speed came up that would be a great swap, yes involved and it probably would drive you nuts trying to get it all working electrically like the Australian guy here has had. But 400 HP before you even start doing anything to it? That alone would make it well worth the time and effort, not to mention the 'individuality' of it :D

Still it depends what you envision doing with the car most, touring or commute with some touring, as I would imagine the S62 could get through some juice in the commute mode if for no other reason than the right foot would be constantly heavy just for the thrill of it ;) I keep my M60 in S3 now and have it spinning in the upper register when I can, just for the sound.

I agree a wailing I6 at 7000 rpm raises the hairs on the back of your neck, OTHO a V8 spinning at 7000 rpm has a wail with a gutteral undertone that is hard to ignore.


I hope that you are able to come to a happy decision with whatever swap you finally decide on.

Good luck and I hope to read all about it :)
Cheers!

[Kalevera]

Jeeze Louise.....I was hoping for a more clear-cut answer than what the poll is currently showing.

[Kalevera]

That has crossed my mind, but there are people developing V12 kits for what it would cost to do an ESS or VF job.

[Kalevera]

V12 cars use a Getrag 286 I think it's called -- the S6S-560G.

The V8 trans is all wrong for the V12, bell housing's different, lower torque rating.

[Kalevera]

The problem is, there's not much you can do with an S62 that doesn't cost an arm and a leg, and for minimal gains. The Discovery supercharged cars that you see floating around were insanely expensive to build...for 700 horsepower. In stock form, the S62 still has expensive problems, and the possibility of oil consumption regardless of the block's year.

There's a dyno run video going around on a TT M70 installed in an E30. Indicates around 650 HP.

The M70 is a very stable motor. In my opinion, it's the best aluminum blocked motor BMW has built. The 750 horror stories you hear about come from idiots that don't take care of their cars or are victims of rapacious mechanics. Given the space limitations, I am continually impressed by how well the E32 750s hold up.

After a little discussion today, it seems that I'm going to hunt down an M73, put a DME 1.7 (late E32) harness on it and use that. It seems to be the best of both worlds. Now to start hunting...

[winfred]

i've always had a chubby for a v12 with a stick in a e34, it sucks for me as i have 2 definatly good m70s and 2 probably good m70s and 1 with a couple rods out the side that are not doing anything, but no real tranny to put behind them, if i wanted another e34 to install one in i could score a decent one pretty quick but no damn cheep v12 sticks around here

[MTechnik540i]

Can the M70 really handle heavy performance driving? I mean... look at the 750il... With that extra stress comes what... another "horror story" website?

I think it would be the smoothest ride, but if you're looking for fun wouldn't it be the least feasible option?

V-12 with not much horsepower for it's size (stock). It's just two M20s smushed together and reduced. :(

I don't know, I wouldn't fall for the glory of it for a sports car, only for a nice smooth luxury car.

S62 man.

Here's some more info on M70/S70 builds...

http://www.racingpowerplant.com/bmw_m70.htm

Henry is the mastermind behind 'Powerplant' and just happens to be building my father's S38 for his M5.

[Kalevera]

Well, I just bought an M73, so fiona is getting a V12.

Got a good deal, so that settles it. And if I tune it correctly, it will put on the wheels what the S38B38 in the real M5Ts have at the crank, with 100nm+ more torque, and more rear wheel power than an E39 M5.

This is going to be fun :)

[TC535i]

s38b38... drool

[BimmerMeUp]

Well, I just bought an M73, so fiona is getting a V12.


It was the only logical choice. Keep us posted.

[MTechnik540i]

Well, I just bought an M73, so fiona is getting a V12.

Got a good deal, so that settles it. And if I tune it correctly, it will put on the wheels what the S38B38 in the real M5Ts have at the crank, with 100nm+ more torque, and more rear wheel power than an E39 M5.

This is going to be fun :)

Very cool.

I'm not familiar with your background with the V12s, but I'd highly recommend seeking Henry Lawrence @ Powerplant Racing (www.racingpowerplant.com) if you've got any questions. He's a M70/M73/S70 Guru.

Here's a fellow on BimmerForums that just had a 6L job done by Henry...
http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=650271