Applying BG 44K Emission Service Kit

[bissellh]

Does anyone have experience applying the BG 44K Emission Service Kit to the engine in my 1992 BMW 525i E34 M50? I bought a kit that has: 1. fuel injecton cleaner that is added to the gas tank at fill up 2. air intake spray cleaner that is sprayed into the throttle body while engine is running 3. engine cleaner that is sucked into the intake while the engine is running and then left to soak the engine for 15 minutes before the engine is restarted. Does anyone know which vacumn line should be used to suck the engine cleaner into the intake of the engine?

[acidfire52]

When I did seafoam in my last car, I used the brake booster hose. Not sure if it would work on our cars, but I just pulled it off the booster and pored it in..

[bissellh]

I did not know there is a hose between the engine intake and the brake booster. But if I understand you correctly, there is a vacuum hose that goes from the engine to the brake booster that has vaccum in it towards the engine intake. If I pull that hose off the brake booster and put it in the foam cleaner I am trying to get into the engine while the engine is running, it should pull the cleaner into the intake. Is that right???

[acidfire52]

I am not sure if it is that way on our cars.. have not looked..

But on most any other car I have worked on, there is a hose going from the intake to the brake booster, rounds thing up against the firewall, that provides vacume to the booster. If you take that off, the booster side, there should be suction there. Pour in your cleaner till she dies.

[Dave M]

Pics of the brake booster hose. Just to the right of the throttle body.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/dave_macisaac/Bimmer/Engine/Block_Swap/nov_22_2005003.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/dave_macisaac/Bimmer/Engine/Block_Swap/nov_22_2005002.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/dave_macisaac/Bimmer/Engine/Block_Swap/nov_22_2005001.jpg

[bissellh]

Thank you! I guess I should use that vacuum hose to get the cleaner in there and then wait 15 minutes before running it out. I have wondered about that ugly elbow connection on that hose before. Is it some sort of vaccum regulator or something??? It must be. BMW would not arbitrarily put that in there for no reason when they could have used a continuous vacuum hose instead.

[bissellh]

Thank you! I guess I should use that vacuum hose to get the cleaner in there and then wait 15 minutes before running it out. I have wondered about that ugly elbow connection on that hose before. Is it some sort of vaccum regulator or something??? It must be. BMW would not arbitrarily put that in there for no reason when they could have used a continuous vacuum hose instead.

[bissellh]

My brake master cylinder needs replacement. I understand that if I wait too long, it could leak brake fluid into the brake booster and the brake fluid could damage the rubber seals in the brake booster. Now I understand that there is a vacuum line from the engine intake to the brake booster. Is it possible that a leaking brake booster could result in brake fluid being pulled into the engine intake. if so, I imagine the results could be catastrophic.

[ryan roopnarine]

post a picture of the kit, please. some of those BG "service" kits are for tool use only, and you might hurt something if you use one of (those) in your intake line like that. that is, unless, you know for sure that the kit you obtained was assembled with DIY in mind.

[bissellh]

Does anyone have experience applying the BG 44K Emission Service Kit to the engine in my 1992 BMW 525i E34 M50? I bought a kit that has: 1. fuel injecton cleaner that is added to the gas tank at fill up 2. air intake spray cleaner that is sprayed into the throttle body while engine is running 3. engine cleaner that is sucked into the intake while the engine is running and then left to soak the engine for 15 minutes before the engine is restarted. Does anyone know which vacumn line should be used to suck the engine cleaner into the intake of the engine?

Here is a picture of the kit I bought on eBay. The seller sold about 20 of them as DIY kits. He e-mailed me application instructions. I was consulting the forum to work out the best line into the intake to use. However, if you think this kit is not suitable for me to do myself because I would be risking damage to my ar, please let me know.

That booster brake line I am going to use to apply this kit looks rather fragile with all the joints and crimp clamps. Any words of wisdom on how to remove that for the application without breaking anything?

Does anyone know if a leaking booster can result in brake fluid being pulled into the engine intake through the vacuum line?

[ryan roopnarine]

it is up to you, but the item on the left hand side is only intended for use in a pressurised fuel injector cleaning apparatus. i don't know how little damage that would do if you attempted to administer it through a vacuum line like seafoam, but i wouldn't use it that way, and 1) i'm a cheap SOB, and 2) i'm a curious sob. if the seller has done it to his own car, then maybe it might be ok.

[bissellh]

I am not familiar with the pressurised fuel injector cleaning apparatus you refer to. Will you explain what it is and how it is different than pouring the fuel injetion system cleaner directly into my intake through the brake booster vacuum line? My impression is that this stuff is the equivalent of sea foam and is intended to clean my intake body, my injectors and my valves. What exactly in my engine are you concerned about that may be damaged by me soaking this through my engine for 15 minutes? I guess what I am asking is why are you so concerned? Is this stuff not the same as sea foam?

[Dave M]

That booster brake line I am going to use to apply this kit looks rather fragile with all the joints and crimp clamps. Any words of wisdom on how to remove that for the application without breaking anything?

Does anyone know if a leaking booster can result in brake fluid being pulled into the engine intake through the vacuum line?

Just pull on the rubber brake booster line, might take a bit of a tug, but nothing fragile about it.

I don't think a leaking brake booster could result in fluid in the intake.

Dave

[ryan roopnarine]

the leftmost can in your picture is for FI cleaning machines. this is basically a can of pressurised air (that holds the solvent) that you connect to the fuel rail in place of the normal fuel line running from your gas tank. it substitutes itself as your gas tank and fuel pump while you force high-detergent solvent through your fuel injectors and inside your cylinder head, which cleans it. when using one of these machines, it is necessary to clamp off the return line to the fuel tank to avoid mixing into your (available ) gas supply, because it has a tendency IIRC to eat through the rubber if you try to use it like a benign product like seafoam. it is a 15-30-45 minute at a time, once in a while treatment that is designed to clean the insides of injectors and remove deposits quickly. IIRC, the can even says that you should not pour it into your gas supply--take what you will from that about its strength. i'm not afraid to use seafoam, but considering that BG makes a decarbonizing product for about the same price as the can on the left, i wouldn't bother (or risk, for that matter) using it in a manner not prescribed by the manufacturer. if you want to decarbonize that badly, just pick up a can of seafoam and use it in its place. i wouldn't want the fuel injection cleaner hanging around as residue in my intake manifold (which it likely will if you use it that way), possibly eating out everything made of rubber or plastic.

ps, if you need a free hose to stuck stuff with, use the end of the intake manifold->FPR hose at the end that connects to the fpr. it is very small in diameter, but you don't have to unclamp anything to use it, and is very suitable for the task you want it for.

[bissellh]

I think I am following you except for the acronyms/abbreviations IIRC and FPR. I went on the BG company products page of their web site to get more information on the leftmost can called 'Fuel Injection System cleaner'. You can view it too at www.bgprod.com/products/fuelair.html. It says it is 'not harmful to any fuel system components including gaskets, hoses, metals, fuel tank bladders, fuel pumps, O-rings, etc. Catalytic converter and oxygen sensor safe.' I guess your concern about it eating away rubber should be alleviated due to the fact that it won't eat away gaskets, hoses or o-rings. I am not so sure about plastic though. I know my fuel pump has some plastic in it and probably some fuel tank bladders do too.

[RallyD]

This product is designed to be used with the BG 9210 Inject-A-Flush® Apparatus and BG 44K‚® Part No. 208.

http://www.bgprod.com/products/images/9210LBC.jpg

[bissellh]

I am aware that it is supposed to be used with the fuel pressure apparatus. I am a DIYer home mechanic and I do not own the apparatus nor do I plan on buying it for what will probably be a one time use. It is meant to presoak injector and upper engine deposits before using BG 44K fuel additive. Do you see any down side to drawing it through the intake and soaking the engine for 15 minutes before runnning it out on the highway at high RPMS?

[bissellh]

Here is a quote from the eBay auction I won describing DIYer application instructions - 'I will send you instructions for the application of the Fuel Injection Cleaner #210 through the Air Induction System of your vehicle without the special tools that are used by repair shops that sell BG services. The method was used by BG before they came out with the special tools. This Complete Emission Service at repair shop in Canada retails for $149.95 parts and labor plus taxes.' Can anyone confirm or deny that the Fuel Injection System Cleaner was drawn into the intake through a vacuum hose before they started making the apparatus? Here is a link to the auction I won: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&viewitem=&item=150074640270. Here is the link to the BG Company product page - www.bgprod.com/products/fuelair.html

[bissellh]

I asked the guy who sold me this kit if the Fuel injection System Cleaner will hurt the plastic components in my car like the throttle body. His repsonse,
'Hi, Forums can be a good place of information and also can be a place for one persons opinion. I have been with Ford for 26 years and have been using BG products for the last 15years. Ford in the last 10 years has gone to plastic throttle bodies,upper and lower intake manifolds. I have never seen a problem. If you want to confirm it just send a e-mail to BG products and ask if this product will hurt plastic components.
http://www.bgprod.com/home.html
thanks for the e-mail.......Brian'.
Unless there is something fundementally different about the locatiion of plastic components in my 1992 BMW 525i E34 M50 vs newer Ford autos, I do not see why this treatment would cause any problem in my car when administered through an intake vacuum hose.

[ryan roopnarine]

this is the last time i'm going to post in this thread, as you seem a little determined to do this. fuel injection cleaning is one thing, decarbonization is another. the gentleman is suggesting that you use their fuel injection cleaning product to do decarbonization. decarbonization is when you shove a hose into a bit of liquid and use steam to clean out the carbon deposits and oil/combustion/blowby out of your intake manifold and cylinder head. bg has a decarbonization product, he just doesn't have any to sell to you, and, as a result, is telling you that this stuff will suffice. go to the bg page posted below. the only products that you are supposed to use in the manner he suggests are 206, 209, and 211. i almost want to know this clown's ebay name, so that i can send it along to ebay and BG. post this post verbatim to him. hell, send bg an email asking if the product YOU got is suitable for use in the way he suggests, and i'll bet he will stop answering your emails when you send him (their) response. my reluctance to use the stuff in the way he recommends has nothign to do with eating out plastic right away--are the fuel injectors in random spots in your intake manifold? no? exactly. when you use the stuff on the proper machine, it disappears, and doesn't pool up for two or three starts. i'll stop talking right now, and suggest that you read the label on the can he sent you. it says "do not pour into gas tank". extrapolate or not what you will from that. look--we all get screwed on ebay from time to time. consider just eating this this time, go down to the store, and get a can of seafoam or two if you want to do this, all that is is napatha and lube. the shop gets $146 canadian because they have the tools to do it right.

[bissellh]

I came to this forum for constructive information that can be backed up with field experience and/or references such as product web sites. You have not backed up any of your assertions with anything at all. You have used abbreviations. That is poor communication and only serves to confuse the issue. I do not now what your qualifications are except that you are a Grand Master on this web site. All that means to my is that you spend a lot of time on the computer responding to forum threads. It does not speak to your mechanical qualifications at all. I am sure you are a nice guy, but I do not find your responses helpful at all.

If you really think the guy who sold me my BG kit and is advocating a DIY application is trying to pull the wool over my eyes, feel free to contact him and/or BG Company. Here is a link to the auction I won: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...m=150074640270. Here is the link to the BG Company product page: www.bgprod.com/products/fuelair.html.

I read every letter on the can of Fuel Injection System cleaner he sold me and NO WHERE does it say "do not pour into gas tank". The BG Product web page says it is safe on all fuel delivery components. I am e-mailing BG Company now to see what there take on this is. Specifically, I will ask if it safe and effective to apply the Fuel Injection System Cleaner manually into the intake of my cars engine. I will ask if it can possibly damage my engine in anyway when applied manually, specifically is it safe on plastic and rubber components? Lastly, I will ask if this product was applied manually before the introduction of mechanical cleaning apparatuses?

[bissellh]

I came to this forum for constructive information that can be backed up with field experience and/or references such as product web sites. You have not backed up any of your assertions with anything at all. You have used abbreviations. That is poor communication and only serves to confuse the issue. I do not now what your qualifications are except that you are a Grand Master on this web site. All that means to my is that you spend a lot of time on the computer responding to forum threads. It does not speak to your mechanical qualifications at all. I am sure you are a nice guy, but I do not find your responses helpful at all.

If you really think the guy who sold me my BG kit and is advocating a DIY application is trying to pull the wool over my eyes, feel free to contact him and/or BG Company. Here is a link to the auction I won: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...m=150074640270. Here is the link to the BG Company product page: www.bgprod.com/products/fuelair.html.

I read every letter on the can of Fuel Injection System cleaner he sold me and NO WHERE does it say "do not pour into gas tank". The BG Product web page says it is safe on all fuel delivery components. I am e-mailing BG Company now to see what there take on this is. Specifically, I will ask if it safe and effective to apply the Fuel Injection System Cleaner manually into the intake of my cars engine. I will ask if it can possibly damage my engine in anyway when applied manually, specifically is it safe on plastic and rubber components? Lastly, I will ask if this product was applied manually before the introduction of mechanical cleaning apparatuses?

[ryan roopnarine]

you are already determined to use this product in a manner inconsistent with the manufacturer's directions because some guy on ebay--who wants to sell you stuff- said you can. find one newsgroup posting, one independent BG distributor website, one individual's website, that says you can use bg's fuel injector cleaner as a decarbonizer--you won't find any. i'd wager that you didn't think this idea up independently until you saw the guy selling the package on ebay. one of snap on's fuel injector cleaner used to have explosion problems because the body of the unit was made of aluminum, and other manufacturers would make fuel injection cleaners that were chloronated--i guess i'm not willing to experiment with the stuff when i can go buy seafoam off the shelf. i'm sorry if i come off as brusque, but the fact remains that there are three items on that page that can be used as decarbonizers, and you don't have any of them. i'll politely (and in a genuinely non-condescending way) suggest that you put the can of stuff up on the shelf unless you have a mechanic buddy that can put it to use for you.

ps--back before they had FI, they would just pour a glass of water down the carburetor, as they didn't have fuel injectors that needing cleaning in the first place. IIRC one or two of those items on the bg page are dual use--ie they can be used as decarbonizers and fuel injector cleaners. you don't have one. i don't object to anyone using FI cleaners to decarbonize, i do object to people using an expensive, specific purpose solvent like that to decarbonize when you can use a glass of water to accomplish the same result.

pps--if it suits you, please post BGs response to your email. i would love to hear what they say about it.

ppps--here is the instruction manual for the OTC 7448 fuel injection cleaner "machine", probably one of the most popular in north america. i own one, my uncle the mechanic owns one, and the fact that the model is the same isn't intentional. note line 8. "block fuel return line". some of this has to do with the idea of the cleaner being wasted/diluted, but i didn't make up the incidences of the snap on unit blowing up either....

http://www.otctools.com/newcatalog/products/105298.pdf

[bissellh]

On the BG Company products web page under the description of the Fuel Injection System Cleaner it says. ' BG Fuel Injection System Cleaner
BG Fuel Injection System Cleaner is a specially formulated blend of solvents‚ high molecular-weight dispersants and deposit control additives which will quickly, effectively and safely clean fuel injectors and help remove upper engine deposits...' It removes upper engine deposits. Is that the same as as a decarbonizer or is that different?

You keep referring to the use of the apparatus. The 25 year mechanic who sold about 20 of these kits advocating the manual application of the Fuel Injection System Cleaner as an alternative to the apparatus for DIYers told me that it was applied manually before the introduction of the apparatuses. Do have any references or personal experience that would confirm or deny this?

Do you think references to exploding devices and chlorinated products is helpful? Can you back up those assertions with any references of any sorts? Can we stick to factual information and personal experience please?

[ryan roopnarine]

the chloronated solvent is especially relevant--what i've been trying to suggest all along. one would assume that a fuel injection cleaner made by a premium outfit like snap on would be compatible with any similar purpose cleaning solvent. in this case, it was not, and, like a cheapie harbor freight paint gun loaded up with chloronated solvent, it exploded. if you need proof, go down to harbor freight and pick up their cheapest spray gun--it will list the explosion risk--which was what was happening with the snap on unit and aftermarket solvent.

the fact that this item is only prescribed for use as a FI cleaner is also relevant. if you were to load a fuel injection cleaning machine with off the shelf chevron FI cleaner, (your) car would not be able to run, as the solvent itself does not provide the same energy as gasoline. the BG FI solvent has petroleum distilate based fuel (like "emergency" trunk gas) to allow your car to run. the dual use products do as well, but they were FORMULATED to be used that way. i would have reservations about using any FI cleaner that could run the car without gas by itself as a decarbonizer. your seller has basically gathered the items that a dealer/bg place would sell as a bundle and put them into a package as an analog to "cutting out the middle man" as opposed to doing the more helpful thing and packaging the decarbonizer instead of the FI cleaner. i would assume because he was unable to purchase it/purchase it in the quantities necessary to make a profit reselling the stuff on ebay, or because people would not buy it if it did not exactly resemble an expensive BG service package from a mechanic.

[bissellh]

Now your are in my space ship confusing matters and wasting my time. I am not going to harbor freight. I am not using an apparatus. I am not using a spray gun. I am 99% positive and willing to take the chance that there is no chlorine in the Fuel Injection System Cleaner. Unless you know or can substantiate that there is Chlorine in this product please stop writing about it. This thread is about how to manually apply the cleaning agent to my BMW M50 engine.

You have raised some concerns about using this product manually instead of manually. Came you substantiate any of these off the wall claims as it pertains specifically the the BG Fuel Injection System Cleaner manuualy applied to my BMW M50 engine?

I asked a specific question. It says that it helps remove upper engine deposits. Is that the same as as a decarbonizer or is that different?

Try to stay focused, we are trying to keep the ship on course. We don't want the space ship to go off course.

[ryan roopnarine]

i'm curious as to why you believe that a random ebay seller is actually a mechanic, and a quarter century one at that. when you find that you run out of BG FI cleaner before you get quite the desired results, feel free to fill a glass up from the tap and use that as your decarbonizer. shoot--use the rest of the BG throttle body cleaner aerosol in the same vacuum line before you make a bee line to the kitchen--like many, many other people do. using the solvent you want to use is like me pouring a quart of mobil 1 oil through my crankcase after draining the oil when a quart of wolf's head is nearby--while it accomplishes the same thing, it is a waste. you are free to do whatever you want with your vacuum lines, i'll burden you no further with my coke and meth fueled machinations.

courage,
ryan

[bissellh]

Once again your response is not pertinent to the question. Are you off your rocker? This thread is about manually applying the BG Company Fuel Injection System Cleaner manually to the BMW M50 engine. The product description on the BG Company product web page says that this product helps remove upper engine deposits. My specific question is: Is that the same as a decarbonizer or is that different? Lets not try to make this a philosophical or religious matter. It is a mechanical matter.

I used to work in the Computer Industry with guys like you who had to make everything a philosophical or religious matter. It seemed they would revert to any tactic in order to be right. Are you a computer guy?