Would 224k on a '91 535i scare you?

[billb]

Okay, here's the deal. In the back of my mind, I've longed for a 535i since we got our 525. Yesterday, I found one on Craigslist. Here's the description:

Good car that was used as a daily commuter. Just serviced with plugs, struts and suspension parts but could use a tune up (cap and rotor). Tires are good. Just inspected in June 06. Car shows wear but it will make someone a good car at this price.
224K highway miles but serviced when it should have been. 5 spd. power everything. Get's good gas mileage. last trip from NJ it got 29 MPG.

That doesn't sound too bad, does it? Hoping to go take a look today after voting.

The kicker is: $2500. :D

[Ferret]

224k is probably around half it's working life - an old friend of mine says his 5 series have lasted usually 3-400k before something terminal went bang.

[ILoveMPower]

224K isn't too bad for an M30, but at that price I'd be wary of other maintenence.

[Rigmaster]

Buy it Bill!!! (it'll save me from having to go look at it....) ;)

Seriously, M30's are probably one of the most bulletproof engines ever built by BMW. I think you probably know enough about E34's other quirks that you can make an informed decision about the condition of the car after you look at it. AND it's a 5 speed!!!! :):)

Would you sell the 318is?? If so, I"m sure you could sell it for enough to buy this car, AND do whatever needs to be done to it to whip it into good shape- maybe even have some $$$ left over.


Bret.

[Derek A.]

Spent the money and have an indy go through the car. Its worth thre $100 to have it up on a hoist and gone through. Might even give you some ammunition against the seller to drop the price

[Qube]

Heck yeah. I'd do it. At 300k, mine still whips the young'ens in their whizzing four bangers :) $2500!

[smcgowan]

No way in hell it got 29mpg unless it was all downhill. My 91 535 5speed at it's highest mpg got 22! Just my 2 cents.

[granit_silber]

Okay, here's the deal. In the back of my mind, I've longed for a 535i since we got our 525. Yesterday, I found one on Craigslist. Here's the description:

Good car that was used as a daily commuter. Just serviced with plugs, struts and suspension parts but could use a tune up (cap and rotor). Tires are good. Just inspected in June 06. Car shows wear but it will make someone a good car at this price.
224K highway miles but serviced when it should have been. 5 spd. power everything. Get's good gas mileage. last trip from NJ it got 29 MPG.

That doesn't sound too bad, does it? Hoping to go take a look today after voting.

The kicker is: $2500. :D
Can't wait to hear about the "visit" Bill. My M50 has almost 182K on it and it's still running strong.
-ashley

[Qube]

No way in hell it got 29mpg unless it was all downhill. My 91 535 5speed at it's highest mpg got 22! Just my 2 cents.

I concur. I drive "spiritedly" about 80% of the time and I get 19.6 MPG. If I do extremely conservative (did for half a tank or so), it averages 24.7 MPG... and this is ULTRA-my-mother-is-riding-shotgun type conservative.

[smcgowan]

Bill,

At that price I'd say got for it and it's the same color combo as mine we would have twins.

Scott

[billb]

will advise. He said it's a $2500 car, and shows some wear and tear. That doesn't scare me too much. He said it needs a cap and rotor. I'd bet that means it needs vacuum hoses...It's a guy who between he and his wife have 4 cars for 2 drivers. Sounds just like my situation.

Haven't spoken to wifey yet on this. She'll not be happy.

Maybe we can get it down a few hundred too.

[Jimbo]

No way in hell it got 29mpg unless it was all downhill. My 91 535 5speed at it's highest mpg got 22! Just my 2 cents.

I completely agree, even on long trips 23 MPG is the best i've ever seen in 3 years of ownership, and I track EVERY tank (I dont use the OBC readout BTW, I calculate it myself). However, I do typically drive 75 on the highway, so at 60MPH maybe you could see 29 MPG.

Back on topic, as long as its had regular fluid changes(engine oil, coolant, transmission fluid...) the M30/Getrag 260 combo is about as bullet-proof a package as any out there. I would be a little wary of the "it needs a tune-up" statement as that could mean just about anything. Definitely spend the money to get it checked by a competent mechanic.

If she's in decent shape, you will not be disappointed in your purchase, plenty of power and ultra smooth. :D

[billb]

I know very little about the 535, and appreciate any info you guys can provide.

[smcgowan]

But LSD and ASC were available... I know mine has ASC. I'm not sure if it also has the LSD option. Any key to determining this? The VIN NUmber perhaps? Or some number on the Diff?

Perhaps Truett would know He recently sold a 91 535 with both options..

[Bimmer Nut Ed]

I've 2 535 5sp, one at 220k miles, one at 180k miles. Both still running very strong. No oil burning at all. Only Bushings seem to get old, but can be replaced. I say I have two cause I still maintain my other that I gave to a friend, that I have first right to buy back, so it's still my baby.

On another note, you guys know that they only made 58 1992 535's. I find that amazing. The one 535im that I gave to the friend is a 1992. One of 58. At least "The Complete Book of BMW, Every Model Since 1950" says they only made 58? Can anyone else verify?

[kick7ca]

I've 2 535 5sp, one at 220k miles, one at 180k miles. Both still running very strong. No oil burning at all. Only Bushings seem to get old, but can be replaced. I say I have two cause I still maintain my other that I gave to a friend, that I have first right to buy back, so it's still my baby.

On another note, you guys know that they only made 58 1992 535's. I find that amazing. The one 535im that I gave to the friend is a 1992. One of 58. At least "The Complete Book of BMW, Every Model Since 1950" says they only made 58? Can anyone else verify?

Really? I have a '92 535im. Seems difficult to believe they only made 58 that year, unless they were the last ones before the 530 began production.

[mamilapon]

Try and squeeze another 300 bones out of him and buy it!!

[BillionPa]

actually 29mpg shouldnt be that bad.... on the highway.

a 5 speed in 5th gear should at least get the same gas mileage that i get as i have an automatic.

on my "highway test" i ended up with 33.2mpg on the first leg, and 28.2mpg for both legs combined (drove my car like it deserved on the way back)

and on my way to work i get about 40mpg on the highway part, thanks to the slight downhill slope on the first half.

[Kalevera]

Bill -- I think it's hard to go wrong with that car for the money, although things have been going for little money on eBay. I saw the pictures on CL. Microfilter and a telescoping column, sweet. Only downside is the free form headlights and what NC sun does over time to Islandgrun and door seals. What's the VIN? We'll figure out where it came from...

Ed -- I wonder if the book meant MY '93 cars. If they produced < 60 535s in '92, there must be a fraction of them listed as MY '93 cars.

I am doubtful of the 29mpg claim, as well. I can get ~24mpg with regular gas on fat tires with the current 3.64. Every E32/E34 M30 5 speed car that I've seen usually seems to be doing around 17mpg via the OBC.

[billb]

Islandgrun metallic, with some fancy pinstriping, long worn off. Freeform headlights, kinda weird looking, compared to the ellipsoids on my '95. Been hit in the right rear door a little. Rust on the bottoms of 2 doors. It's a Northern car, so rust underhood in places I just don't see rust on my E30 or current E34. Missing rear window trim, passenger side. Interior in surprisingly good shape (headliner sagging). One dashlight out. Radio worked, as did the OBC. All pixels lit on the check control display. Matching VINs on all panels and doors. Pretty straight car all said. Tracked straight, stopped straight. Fan worked on all speeds. Has the cool stepper motor temperature control for the center vents (my '95 has the fixed version). Full toolkit in the trunk. Full size basketweave in there too! Not sure if it had an alarm, as he just handed me a key. CD changer in the trunk (aftermarket) with separate controller.

Did not start on first try. Or second. Finally kicked off on the third, and stumbled to life. Valves not noisy. There was a sporadic clacking low in the engine bay. Rod bearing? It wasn't steady, and with ASC I couldn't figure out how to throttle up. Lots of oil leaks. The block looked rusty(?). Brake linings light (brakes recently done, but I don't think they reconnected the sensors). Driver's side door switch wouldn't stay made, so I kept getting DOOR OPEN warning. Severe hesitation/stumble off the line when cold, but got better when warm. Idled quietly except for that weird sporadic clacking. Water pump? Seemed too far back and low for that. That sound makes me very nervous. Nice torque when warm.

Shifted smoothly, but the shifter was wildly sloppy. Could be refreshed easily, I'm sure. No weird clunks, new shocks and suspension bits recently, so that was a plus. Would need tires very soon.

Exhaust leak somewhere near the back, but newer looking muffler.

Everything worked. A/C, windows, sunroof, heated seats, ASC would toggle off and on via the switch. Raining cats and dogs, so I didn't get under it to look at the diff tag, nor did I want to try the posi-test. The rear end has been replaced at least twice, according to the owner, for noise. It did not seem noisy to me today, but I've been in a 318is for 3.5 years...

I definitely need to go back in the daylight/sunny weather.

As Whit put it, it got some goodies being a late '90 1991 model. Microfilter, the steering column. He mentioned it had fly-by-wire throttle. Is that just the ASC, or is that some EML funky thing? No CEL was lit during my test drive, and it did come up to operating temperature pretty quickly. He mentioned in the ad that it needed a cap and rotor. That may have been the misfiring, but not sure. Ran very smooth from 2000 to 4000 rpm.



VIN WBAHD1312MBF11785

[Rigmaster]

Well, except for the rusty part- it sounds about right to me for $2500.

I've got some Islandgrun doors........ :)



Bret.

[John B.]

No way in hell it got 29mpg unless it was all downhill. My 91 535 5speed at it's highest mpg got 22! Just my 2 cents.


My 535i gets 18-19mpg around town but on a long highway trip has gotten 27mpg cruising 70=80mph w/the air off.

[billb]

I'll keep you posted. Kinda getting that giddy feeling I had when I first looked at my 318is on the garage lot, all forelorn and lonesome, unloved. The first test drive I took in it when the speedometer or tach didn't work, it had a terrible miss, the center bearing was shot, the shifter was sloppy, it didn't stop worth a darn, etc. The only real difference is that this 535 has rust whereas my E30 had none.

It also makes me appreciate just how nice our 525i is now. Sure it's 4 years newer, but it is worlds apart in maintenance. I try to maintain a leak-free engine.

This was the M42 when I brought it home:
http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d106/tarheelbimmer/e30/dirtym42.jpg

Here's more recently (not now, since I have a new radiator now):
http://www.bimmer.info/bmw/fgump/m42left.jpg

[billb]

Well, except for the rusty part- it sounds about right to me for $2500.

I've got some Islandgrun doors........ :)



Bret.

I'm starting to think this might be doable...

[billb]

It seems the owner of the car might know a little more about its condition than I've been made aware of. On another forum, a year ago, is a posting by a user with the same email address/username seeking a rear end. Not sure if it was resolved.

Also, apparently, the cruise doesn't work (another internet post I found by the same user), and it's been traced to EML control issues. Yes, this car has EML (drive by wire, no throttle cable). That explains my difficulty finding a throttle cable last night.

I'm going to drop this one from my search. Back to the drawing board.

[s_ribbens]

I got mine with 232k. Just over 240k at the moment and the thing runs fantastically! These old bimmers are impressive with how long they last.

[Rigmaster]

It seems the owner of the car might know a little more about its condition than I've been made aware of. On another forum, a year ago, is a posting by a user with the same email address/username seeking a rear end. Not sure if it was resolved.

Also, apparently, the cruise doesn't work (another internet post I found by the same user), and it's been traced to EML control issues. Yes, this car has EML (drive by wire, no throttle cable). That explains my difficulty finding a throttle cable last night.

I'm going to drop this one from my search. Back to the drawing board.


Ehh, rear diffs are no big deal- you can find open diffs in less desirable ratios for ~$150, and even the LSD's with the more desirable ratios are ~$300-350.

As for the EML stuff, I've been hoarding the parts I can find for that system since my wife's 535iA has it and I don't look forward to having to buy the stuff from the dealer. There are basically 3 parts to the EML, the Throttle body, the potentiometer that connects to the gas pedal, and the control unit. Last time I checked realoem.com, these parts ranged in price from ~$900-1800 EACH!!! I've got a spare of each IF you decide to risk it- I could at least let you use them for troubleshooting....

As for the Islandgrun doors, I think I have 3 good ones (all but the driver's side front door)- they are in good shape, but the driver's side rear has had some filler at some time in the past- but no rust.


Bret

[billb]

Ehh, rear diffs are no big deal- you can find open diffs in less desirable ratios for ~$150, and even the LSD's with the more desirable ratios are ~$300-350.

As for the EML stuff, I've been hoarding the parts I can find for that system since my wife's 535iA has it and I don't look forward to having to buy the stuff from the dealer. There are basically 3 parts to the EML, the Throttle body, the potentiometer that connects to the gas pedal, and the control unit. Last time I checked realoem.com, these parts ranged in price from ~$900-1800 EACH!!! I've got a spare of each IF you decide to risk it- I could at least let you use them for troubleshooting....

As for the Islandgrun doors, I think I have 3 good ones (all but the driver's side front door)- they are in good shape, but the driver's side rear has had some filler at some time in the past- but no rust.


Bret
...;)

I'm going to look again at lunch today, taking the camera. I'll try to shoot a short clip of the engine noise I heard, and some other pertinent photos and post up this afternoon.

[billb]

Well, I went back and spent about an hour with the car today. Definitely going to pass. The bad:

the paint is in worse shape than I thought, and would need a respray
it would need a lot of body work along the bottoms of the doors and the front fenders
would need new exhaust, front to rear. the tips looked new, but everything was rusted out
gas tank looked rusty around the seam
BAD clunks I didn't notice the other night under braking. Like caliper carrier loose kind of clunk.
Still kind of stumbles to get out of its way until 2000 rpm
coolant leak at the expansion tank outlet
new struts recently installed in the front, but did not replace strut mounts (as seen by the rust on the studs)


The good:

it has a great interior. I wish I could swap some pieces with him.
I got to see it a few times and evaluate without making a rash decision.
I finally got to drive a 535i 5-speed.


Some photos, and a link to the short video I took of the strange engine rattle/knock.

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d106/tarheelbimmer/535/DSCN1554.jpg

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d106/tarheelbimmer/535/DSCN1567.jpg

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d106/tarheelbimmer/535/DSCN1570.jpg

This worried me:
http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d106/tarheelbimmer/535/DSCN1572.jpg
I've never seen a rusty oil filter canister bolt...

Here's the video. It's 11mb, about 42 seconds long.
http://s34.photobucket.com/albums/d106/tarheelbimmer/535/?action=view&current=DSCN1580.flv

[billb]

Comments on the short video of the engine? Does it sound like the flywheel? Just curious more than anything what that noise was.

http://s34.photobucket.com/albums/d106/tarheelbimmer/535/?action=view&current=DSCN1580.flv

[Rigmaster]

must resist........cannot buy another car.......must resist...............


Ohh, the force is strong with this one.....................


Resist........................



:)

[Mitch90535im]

I'm at 222K, so that high mileage doesn't scare me as long as the car has been maintained. I'm averaging 19.6 mpg, and that is mostly around town driving. I've never checked it on a trip.

[ryan roopnarine]

Comments on the short video of the engine? Does it sound like the flywheel? Just curious more than anything what that noise was.

http://s34.photobucket.com/albums/d106/tarheelbimmer/535/?action=view&current=DSCN1580.flv

did the exhaust smell pecuilar(sp)? i want to say something but i'd have to ask first.

[billb]

did the exhaust smell pecuilar(sp)? i want to say something but i'd have to ask first.

It was kind of lumpy at idle, so I might have detected a little richness in the mixture if anything.

[billb]

I'm at 222K, so that high mileage doesn't scare me as long as the car has been maintained. I'm averaging 19.6 mpg, and that is mostly around town driving. I've never checked it on a trip.

It was rougher than I'd like, and my 318 was rough when I bought it.

[billb]

must resist........cannot buy another car.......must resist...............


Ohh, the force is strong with this one.....................


Resist........................



:)

Come drive it and let's compare notes. I've never driven a 535, but it felt pretty down on power, IMHO. My 318is felt quicker...

[Paul in NZ]

535's dont feel that fast until about 3500 rpm then there is a real lift.
the leaves all over the car and the oil fiter cannister say it all......It might live outside,but sheesh if youre selling a car you would make it look loved wouldnt ya?Might be a good project car.

[Jake Casson]

My 535 sounds abit like that. Ive got a 92 is model here in the uk-is that 58 made worldwide then?

[///M-Power 3\\\]

Hey, I would offer him 1800 for it. E34 parts are plentiful and cheap enough
where for 2500 and a little time you could have a really nice vehicle. I have a few theories on your engine noise, though it's hard to pinpoint since the video has non directional sound. So here goes:

1) Bent/Broken Valve and or spring
2) Excessive cam wear
3) Timing Chain tensioner
4) Loose flywheel bolt
6) Starter not fully disengaging
7) Loose eccentric

I would put a long screwdriver to different areas of the engine and try to press your ear to the handle and listen through it. Chances are its not as bad as you think. M30's are so reliable that they sell for dirt cheap because few people need replacements. I know that i personally let a mint 44k mile motor from an 89 735i go for 400 dollars because nobody wanted it for so long.
If you need a head i will sell one of mine for 150 that i know is good

**** man, i have a 535ia and i would practically pay 2000 for the 5 spd parts alone!!! I recently saw one w/ 337,000 miles on ebay for 1500 and its interior was shot

[billb]

Not sure what it went for either, but less than 2k I'm sure.

[Alexlind123]

535's dont feel that fast until about 3500 rpm then there is a real lift.
the leaves all over the car and the oil fiter cannister say it all......It might live outside,but sheesh if youre selling a car you would make it look loved wouldnt ya?Might be a good project car.

My 535i varies alot in terms of power from day to day. On cold, dry days, it pulls strongly from 2500 on. On rainy days (even cold) it feels less powerful. Actually the dry days in the summer arent bad either, maybe the humidity kills the power *shrug*

[Ross]

Good thing you didn't buy. That car is a wreck. Testimony to a well built car that it's still "going" but not for long by the sound of it.
How long before we see some posts here regarding this thing I wonder?

To answer your original question; 200+ k is high miles, no matter it's age, period. I know all about Bimmer longevity, your preaching to the choir on that one. Fact is 90% of BUYERS will run from a car with those miles. This forum is testimony to what is required to keep an elderly car on the road. So, if you buy or own a car with that kind of mileage plan on keeping it or if you need to sell expect a significantly reduced price.