Need help deciding between cars

[TheJakeR]

I am in the market for my first car and I have been looking eagerly at a 98 328i 5spd sedan. I drove an auto version of the car, and the acceleration amazed me as well as the cornering and comfort in the driver's seat. Now that I have finished learning to drive a manual transmission (learning on a g35 coupe was difficult) I think I am ready to buya 5spd.

The other car that is on my list is the 00-05 Toyota Celica Gt-S 6spd (lightweight, great handling, 7800 RPM redline!!!!!, easy to maintain, economical, and a lot better gas mileage than the bimmer[~25/30 actual, not montioning that it used 87 unleaded and not the 91 premium the e36 needs], it also has the VVTL-i engine that has a lift option that THROWS you back in the driver's seat at around 4k RPM)

Now I am looking for some advice as to which car I should choose. I know I am going to get the biased opinions on the bimmer side, but I really need an honest opinion.

I do not mind working on a car, I have access to a car lift and both me and my dad are really into performance automobiles.

Any suggestions as to which car I should go for would be greatly appreciated.

I am looking to buy before mid-September, so I am really excited!


Thanks a lot,
Jake
thejaker@gmail.com

[Qube]

Good job on making the jump to manual! One thing though... where did you get the notion that an e36 wants 91? Again, being ignorant ( :) ), I only transitioned to 91 from 89 after it was sharked...

I appreciate the hard choice you have though... the GT-S is a bottle rocket when you hit the threshold. HOWEVER! If you run it at 87, it's not going to work (in my humble opinion). The 2000 GT-S runs something like 11.5 compression and in my opinion, would knock/retard like crazy with 87. I'm quite certain that it commands premium gas.

EDIT: some quick searches reveal:

http://www.theautochannel.com/vehicles/new/reviews/2000/russ0019.html
Fuel Requirement unleaded premium, 92 octane

http://www99.shopping.com/xPR-Toyota_2000_Toyota_Celica~RD-31945297540
The GT is not only several k less than the GT-S, it will also get you better fuel mileage, AND it does not require 92 octane gas like the GT-S.

[TheJakeR]

Qube,
I'm not sure the GT-S really needs 91 octane, but I will ask a couple of my friends who do have them. I test drove an auto version and the guy says he can fill it up with 87 and it doesn’t hiccup at all.
Anyways, I will keep the regular GT in mind, but I seem to be able to find the GT-S's for around the same price, and for the money, I would much rather have the VVTL-i engine, versus the VVT-I. The lift does make a big difference!

Also, I have stumbled upon another car that interests me, The 02 Nissan Sentra SE-R specV. My close friend owns one and he says they have the silkiest, most reassuring shifter out there (this might be an advantage to me as I am a new driver just learning to drive a manual transmission), great race buckets that are extremely comfortable, good handling around the corners and steering feels solid, and the engine is nothing short of amazing for the price.

I will go out and test drive one of these soon, but here is my list in order of importance:

1. 7th gen Celcia GT or GT-S 5-6spd
2. 94-99 Bimmer 328i 5spd
3. MAYBE????? Nissan Sentra SE-R specV

Tell me what you think of the Nissan??????

Thx again,
Jake

[TheJakeR]

Ah Qube,
I forgott. I usually fill up my tank at costco gas, because it is the cheapest around and my family has had not problems with both the 87 and 91. Also, those are the only two varieties they offer, so i dunno what to expect now...

Jake

[Qube]

Well... if your car has a smidge of performance (not a put down of any sort!), then you'll appreciate even using just one grade higher. Try the 'new car challenge' (yeah, I just made it up).

.. Run a near empty tank
.. Put in a bottle of Lubro Moly or Redline injector cleaner
.. Fill a tank of mid-grade and run it dry
.. Do an oil change
.. Fill a tank of mid-grade
.. Shogon reset (search :) )

After a little bit of adjustment, enjoy the performance!

Anyway, back to the topic at hand... again, I find it hard to not find a difference running fresh tanks of lowest grade vs mid grade gasoline. Sure, there are exceptions, but with these higher compression (and in my case, older) cars, the higher grade will give you a much more enjoyable experience. Not to mention that you'll most likely get higher gas mileage... negating the costs for the most part. Let me know what you think.

EDIT: Dang it man, post this in the "5 Series" forums and let those folks have a rip at this topic! ;)

[granit_silber]

Jake,

Not to sound like an old fart, but as a new driver are you sure you want to start out with high-performance cars? I know it's the American Muscle Car Way, but that doesn't always mean it's the smartest way. Maybe your first car should be a de-tuned version of those listed (i.e. a 318 vs. a 328) and as your skill progresses, you move up. Most smart motorcyle riders start with a small displacement bike until they learn the skills needed to control the bike and then gradually move up in displacement until they're riding a beast. I'm sorry that I sound like a killjoy and I'll probably get flamed a little for this, but learning basic control skills is hard enough, but is very difficult when your also having to accomadate a high-power vehicle. I guess I've just seen to many new drivers in my area wrap themselves around a lightpole because they weren't equal to the task.

just my 2cents. good luck!
-ashley

[Qube]

Good point, Ashley. It's safeer/easier to maximize the potential of a slightly lesser car, than to hold yourself back or otherwise 'underdrive' too much car. Still... money is money. Be careful!

[Rus]

I'll also vote in favor of less sporty cars for a first automobile. I'm of the opinion that less powerfull cars are better suited for learning the manual shifting techniques and skills. I learned mostly on four cylinder cars and must say that the less powerful engines teach you finesse and to be smooth. A more powerful engine won't stall as easily and can get an inexperienced driver into trouble very quickly. After four years of driving stick I can comfortably and nearly automatically execute near-idle take offs and silky-smooth shifts...with about 90hp under the hood (1989 Honda Accord). Moving up to my 535iA, I still had/have some learning to do when it came to gas pedal management, even with automatic shifting.

As far as the car selection goes, Toyota may be a better choice for a younger driver. I'm 19 (well 20 as of tomorrow) and find that its not quite easy to fund a car that uses a lot of fuel (read: big six around town in traffic...14mpg) Maintenance is not difficult and doesn't have to be expensive if you shop around and do your own labor (you probably know this already). It never hurts to look at the recalls for all the cars you are considering. They indicate what goes wrong, and what you may have to deal with. Don't forget to look at insurance quotes for various cars. Four doors usually have lower rates, so maybe the Celica is not the best option now? Also I'd venture to guess that the BMW may still qualify as a sport sedan to some insurance agencies whereas a Sentra may not being an economy car by design. Celica = sport coupe. Just a few ideas to ponder about. Hope this helps with your decision.

Best wishes.

[TheJakeR]

I from what I take it, I might need to rule out the Bimmer. I think I should do this bacause of:
A: Maintenence (a little high and I would use the car everyday, so any length of time in the shop is not an option)
B: Gas Mileage (91 fuel costs a lot these days and I would like a little better fuel economy than 19/25)

The next thing I did was to call the insurance company and get estimates for the Celica. It costs no more than the 02 Chevy Tahoe my family is insuring right now untill we sell it, so if it is uder that amount, it is not really a problem, because my dad is going to pay for insurance while I pay for all running costs of the vehicle.

Also, another car crossed my mind: 98-00 Honda Civic Si???????
reliable(its a honda), good perofrmance while stock (dont have to do much to the car to enjoy it) and it gets great gas mileage.

??????????

So which car is the winner?

1. 7th gen toyota celica gt 5spd
2. 02-06 Nissan Sentra SE-R Spec V
3. 98-00 Honda Civic Si
4. e36 BMW 328i 5spd

Keep in Mind my price range is uder 10,500. So far all of these cars fit the budget, but other suggestions are always welcome!

[Qube]

That's easy. 1992-4 525i for under $4000. You'll have that extra $6000 in the bank for anything that may arise... and you'll be rocking in STYLE! ;)

[BillionPa]

if you really wanna **** your pants test drive a euro spec E36 M3 with the 3.2L S50 engine.

[BillionPa]

in all seriousness though, does the 328 have traction and stability control?

does it have an LSD?

[TheJakeR]

in all seriousness though, does the 328 have traction and stability control?

does it have an LSD?

BillionPa,
I don't think that is really an issue here in Southern California because I do not encounter any snow or ice any time of the year. There is a bit of rain, but that's not really a problem, so traction control and stability control is not a necessity.

Thanks,
Jake

[granit_silber]

BillionPa,
I don't think that is really an issue here in Southern California because I do not encounter any snow or ice any time of the year. There is a bit of rain, but that's not really a problem, so traction control and stability control is not a necessity.

Thanks,
Jake
In a dry environment traction control helps keep the back-end in line if a driver does something dumb (like over-estimating corner entry speed).

-ashley

[granit_silber]

One other thing to consider is most of these cars have a very high chance of being totally ragged by their previous owner (esp the si) and are probably tired and in need of refreshing.

Let us know what you get.
-ashley

[BillionPa]

traction control helps better in rain or dusty/gravel conditions than it does in snow, and it really doesnt help on ice at all.

i have the traction control light go off more in dry conditions than in any other, usually due to dust or small rocks in the way. about half the time the light goes off it activates the throttle, the other half its just letting you know that the ground is not in the best shape and to slow down.