Chatty lifters

[Yiorgos]

Hey everyone,

Still kind of a newbie here, so please don't be too harsh! My car has developed chattly hydraulic lifters -- I have a 04/95 BMW 525i with the M50 motor. I have taken this to an indy for a brief diagnosis and this is what he has told me.

I took the car to a dealer and get them to listen to it and pull out an estimate on the job -- AU$2400!

A friend of mine told me that he has used Lucas Heavy Duty Oil Stabiliser in his car after it was burning oil and ranted on about the results -- he seemed pretty happy. I played with that little gear demonstration that they have in the Auto stores, I just wanted to know what people in here think about fixing or minimising chatty lifters -- I'm a little sceptical on a $16 bottle of miracle tonic to fix a problem that could cost over 2k to fix.

I am using Caltex GTX2 oil, I forget the viscocity of this but it should be somewhere like 20W-50, which seems OK to my climate (Melbourne - coldest it gets is about 3C, hottest is 43C last year).

I don't mind spending the 2k if need be, it's just I want to know my options -- of course, by asking a dealer the same question they're going to recommend the 2k option.

Cheers,
-- George

[Triton540i]

That Lucas stuff worked miracles in my VW Golf!!!!! I had this ticking problem in my car and thought it was a hole in the manifold... Yeah... it's crazy, but it was that loud! (3:15 am. here so please forgive me!) After running that stuff in my car... over time it's disappeared! I had problems with the car running HOT and that problem went away too! The reason I was told the car was running hotter than normal (After replacing the radiator and making sure the electric fan worked... checked all of that!) was because when you start your car, move it, then shut it off... it's EXTREMELY hard on the cams because they don't have much oil there to lubricate them... I also let the car sit for days before moving it, then start, move and shut off. That kind of stuff will kill your engine, trust me! The Lucas stuff has given me a winter beater that will last me a couple more years, rather than run scared of over heating and replacement of the vehicle.

The only thing I would be aware of is that I've heard (not sure why it freaks me out when I say this) that BMWs have tighter tolerances and it might not be the right product to use in this kind of car? I was using it at at 25% ratio in my VW (1 quart in exchange for the Lucas product) and I've had great results. I'm not sure how many quarts of oil your car uses (my 540i takes 8 quarts) but I would start with the lowest amount... one quart, then see what happens.

I'm in the same boat as you are when it comes to miracles in a bottle, but I'm truly sold on this product as it's changed the way my VW has run... I'm a believer!

Well... that's my two cents worth on that subject, now where's that pillowwwwwwww........... ;)

-Eric

[ryan roopnarine]

you can use any miracle in a can "tappet cleaner" to try to resolve this first, before you try the lucas. if you need to put in a cleaner more than once, well, then you likely have a significant mechanical problem. in N. America, we have seafoam on the cheap end, and AUTO RX on the expensive. in a commonwealth country, you probably have something called "tappet cleaner" on the shelves in an auto parts store. they basically thin out the oil enough so that all of the crud that has built up in your lifting apparatus can be flushed into your crankcase. if you don't have "tappet cleaner", ask the counter person for whichever oil additive you can put into your crankcase that frees rings and cleans valves. the most important part is that the product says that you can leave it in for the duration of the oil change. you aren't looking for an oil flush that you need to dump after 5-10 minutes.

[Omega]

I had exactly the same issue. It's caused by crud floating around in the oil and blocking the small oil ways in the lifters. I got rid of the noise by running engine flush through the oil before an oil change. I had to do this twice to finally clear the crud but it's been whisper quiet for the last 10k miles.

With the flush I used you had to run the car ar 2000 rpm for 15 minutes. If your car is an auto (which mine is) jack up the rear, chock the front end and drop the box into drive. 2000 rpm in park or neutral for that length of time will cook the box big style. You'l end up with a quiet car that won't be able to drive anywhere!

[Yiorgos]

Thanks for everyone replying so far -- I realise it's pretty early in the states, so I'm probably expecting some more responses as the day goes by.


I had exactly the same issue. It's caused by crud floating around in the oil and blocking the small oil ways in the lifters. I got rid of the noise by running engine flush through the oil before an oil change. I had to do this twice to finally clear the crud but it's been whisper quiet for the last 10k miles.

With the flush I used you had to run the car ar 2000 rpm for 15 minutes. If your car is an auto (which mine is) jack up the rear, chock the front end and drop the box into drive. 2000 rpm in park or neutral for that length of time will cook the box big style. You'l end up with a quiet car that won't be able to drive anywhere!

Very interesting, Omega. I didn't think of this before, and it's good that you had brought this up -- if this is my problem, and I didn't know it, I would have gone and replaced every lifter, blow more than $2k on the job and still have tapping noises! There is a company in Australian called Wynn's that have an engine flush additive, I'll give it a whirl, I guess I have nothing to lose.

Just one question Omega, you say you did this twice, did you do:
a) engine flush then oil change, engine flush then oil change (ie complete thing twice), or
b) engine flush, engine flush THEN oil change?

How many k's/miles between flushes?

[ryan roopnarine]

i forgot the name. the stuff i'm thinking about is called wynn's valve/hydraulic tappet cleaner.

[fkong777]

Change your oil to LubroMoly MOS2 anit-friction motor oil. chatter valve will mostly be gone.. Molybdenum Disulfide in the oil helps a lot.

Try that first..

I used it and they are great.. I wish they sell it at pep boys so I will use that all the time.

This is the site. www.liquimoly.de search for lubro-moly or lubro moly in google. you will read a lot of good things about it

[Omega]

Just one question Omega, you say you did this twice, did you do:
a) engine flush then oil change, engine flush then oil change (ie complete thing twice), or
b) engine flush, engine flush THEN oil change?
How many k's/miles between flushes?

Sorry, to clarify I flushed it once, then did the oil&filter change. It ran sweet for about 4k miles it then started to rattle again after prolonged high speed motorway runs (90mph for 2+ hours at a time) so I decided to do another flush and oil&filter change. It's been quiet since then:) I think it was Wynns flush that I used - I seem to remember it being a red can?

My indi also recommended changing the lifters, but for me it wasn't economically viable I could buy another engine for the price quoted - actually I could have bought a complete car for the money. e34's are virtually worthless in the UK due to the fuel and running costs!

I just tried the flush as I had nothing to loose and it worked. Hope you have the same luck.

[jbourke]

Can I just put in 2 cents ... on motors with a bit of K there are other things that can cause chatty lifters. Oil pressure on those motors is dependant on a steady idle, if it's not it'll make some lifters tick. Mine was caused by a vacuum leak (80% of the tick solved) and one shitty injector (tick gone).

They are the cheaper options and easier to check as well :)

[ILoveMPower]

This sounds very interesting! I have an M30, which normally is a bit loud on the top end, but I'm sure it could be quieted a bit.

So you add the additive to your old oil PRIOR to changing it? Also, does anyone have any recommendations as to what oil to run? I've been using Rotella T, but I feel my baby deserves better.

Sorry for the thread hijacking! :(

[mamilapon]

Hey everyone,

Still kind of a newbie here, so please don't be too harsh! My car has developed chattly hydraulic lifters -- I have a 04/95 BMW 525i with the M50 motor. I have taken this to an indy for a brief diagnosis and this is what he has told me.

I took the car to a dealer and get them to listen to it and pull out an estimate on the job -- AU$2400!

A friend of mine told me that he has used Lucas Heavy Duty Oil Stabiliser in his car after it was burning oil and ranted on about the results -- he seemed pretty happy. I played with that little gear demonstration that they have in the Auto stores, I just wanted to know what people in here think about fixing or minimising chatty lifters -- I'm a little sceptical on a $16 bottle of miracle tonic to fix a problem that could cost over 2k to fix.

I am using Caltex GTX2 oil, I forget the viscocity of this but it should be somewhere like 20W-50, which seems OK to my climate (Melbourne - coldest it gets is about 3C, hottest is 43C last year).

I don't mind spending the 2k if need be, it's just I want to know my options -- of course, by asking a dealer the same question they're going to recommend the 2k option.

Cheers,
-- George
Mate, don't use any sort of stabilizer. Just use engine flush twice over 2000ks, use good oil,GTX2 isn't very good, use Penrite15 or Mobil 1 and make sure you use good quality oil filters eg Hengst or Mann.

[BillionPa]

you put the engine flush in the oil right before changing it, let it idle for 10 mins, drain.

Lucas pure synthetic stabilizer is some pretty nice stuff, good additive (15% by volume) for low viscosity dino oils.

however after testing, moly disulfide seems to be much more effective in BMW engines at shutting the lifters up. provided you use oil that has a proper viscosity match and enough EP additives.

[Ausmpower]

This sounds very interesting! I have an M30, which normally is a bit loud on the top end, but I'm sure it could be quieted a bit.

So you add the additive to your old oil PRIOR to changing it? Also, does anyone have any recommendations as to what oil to run? I've been using Rotella T, but I feel my baby deserves better.

Sorry for the thread hijacking! :(

m30's don't have the hydraulic lash adjusters, they are manually set. if the top end is noisey then you need to have the tappets adjusted.

[SilverFive90]

Can I just put in 2 cents ... on motors with a bit of K there are other things that can cause chatty lifters. Oil pressure on those motors is dependant on a steady idle, if it's not it'll make some lifters tick. Mine was caused by a vacuum leak (80% of the tick solved) and one shitty injector (tick gone).

They are the cheaper options and easier to check as well :)

Can you give me info on finding vacuum leaks..I'm convinced I have a leak as well, not to mention the idle runs pretty low.....

[Yiorgos]

How high rpm should an idle be? My idle sounds pretty stable, but it's at around 600-700rpm, is that normal for a 2.5L M50?

EDIT: no matter, had a look here: http://www.bimmer.info/forum/showpost.php?p=180312&postcount=8 and 700 seems about riight (M50B25, 9/90)