Just another tire shop rant....

[DanDombrowski]

Since I'm so absolutely steaming mad, I thought I would vent at my usual frustration with discount tire places. In this case....its Sears.

Some of you may remember the pics I posted of my falken ziexs that wore through on the inside edge. Well, I took it in, and tried to be cool with the guy. No dice. He says the tire is fine. The tire is okay, it has tread on it. The inside doesn't matter.

Do you not see THIS?

http://plaza.ufl.edu/volvo240/tire.JPG

So, I'm usually good at dealing with people, especially idiots. I explain to him that I really don't think the inside of the tire is safe. I paid for the warranty, and I understand I'll have to pay for the difference. I'll buy a new warranty, valve stems, and mabye even let you align it for some easy profit. No dice. He then switches his story to say that its a misalignment and not their fault, but that the tire is definitey damaged.

So I tell him that BMW says that there is no rear alignment on the car, and thats the way that they're supposed to wear. So he says he will check the alignment, it will be $95. I asked him if he's going to do it correctly (with no real intention of getting it done). I reminded him that there was no rear correction, but he said he had to check it. So I asked:

"If you check the alignment, and its in spec (rear negative camber), then the tire is covered under warranty, right?" He says, "no, definitely not, thats an alignment problem". Talk about a broken record. So I tried really, really hard to keep my cool. I asked him if there was anyone more experienced I could talk with. Up until this point, I was actually in a very normal tone, trying to get the guy to side with me, rather than insiting I'm right. I've done this before.

He told me to leave, that they didn't want me there. Thats when I absolutely lost it. I thought I would have some fun with him, insist he was gonna have to push me out or something to get him riled up, hoping he would do something stupid. No dice there either (darn). He did get pretty pissed though. I told him I would be back tomorrow to talk to his manager. I'm not, but I thought I would worry him about it.

Man, I hate those guys......

Ok, done venting.

[SharkmanBMW]

touchy situation... but it is clearly worn, but whose fault is that? the tire? the car?
you should have sent a woman in with it, it may have helped!
Realistically, the manufacturer, will not refund the dealer for that tire. A friend owns a tire shop, and they can't just warranty everything people bring them, but everyone tries!

are all 4 like that?!?

[Lennyz525i]

Understand your frustration. Tire and alignment shops can be a nightmare. I've got horrible experiences with Wheelworks (damn them!! hopefully their incompetence doesn't stretch beyond CA) and some local money grabbing alignment shop that told I HAD to come back for a rear wheel alignment, right... And that would be 4 hours of labor at $95/hour, animals.

[Alexlind123]

Find a new tire shop. You probably knew that though...

[DanDombrowski]

Oh, I know full well that it was not their fault to begin with. Obviously, there is something that is causing the tire to wear improperly.

It was his "Its not my fault no matter what" attitude and the fact that he was willing to perform an alignment for $95 that he knew would be wrong that pissed me off. He insisted on performing an alignment, even though he admitted that he didn't know the proper way, and even then if it came out right (which it shouldnt), he wouldnt warranty it anyway. So whats the point of the alignment?

So basically, all over nothing, because I had no intention of letting them align the car, because I knew they wouldn't know how (they admitted they didnt use weights after awhile).

[DanDombrowski]

And no, all 4 are not like that, just the rears.

[DanDombrowski]

Yeah, no kidding. As much as I hate tire shops, I often have to take less technically inclined cars (like my Volvo and Jeep) to them from time to time. I've had good and bad experiences, but over time, the overall best service I've had is from Goodyear places. They usually do a pretty good job of listening when I explain why I think their answer is wrong or right. The front two tires are the same brand, but goodyear put them on. I think I'll go back to them for the rear two.

Of course, that is after a little bit of "testing" the remaning tread. :)

[Tiger]

How often did you rotate the tires? How many miles on them?

[Johntee540]

e34's normally wear on the inside on the rears. How many miles have traveled on those tires?

Because of the negative camber (spec for the e34) it is normal wear and tear for inside wear. This is part of the reason why the car handles so well in corners. There is negative camber on the rear so that When turning - the weight of the car shifts to the outside - the tire then moves to a neutral camber putting all of the tread on the road for grip. Once through the turn the wheel returns to negative camber.

The Fronts will normally wear on the outside edges - by - design as well. There is nothing wrong with the car.

I am getting around 32k miles out of a set of Toyo Proxies (soft tire) as normal course of use.

Therefore - while I dont disagree you were dealing with an idiot - you need to be aware of the normal wear patterns for these cars - JT

[Russell]

I have 35,000 on set of bridgestones with about 1/2 tread left and seem to be worn even. I do this because the rear tires will wear on the inside and front tires will wear on the outside.

BTW, my tire shop uses a torque wrench on the lug bolts. But they will not use weights for an alignment. Not sure the dealer even does here in Lexington, KY.



How often did you rotate the tires? How many miles on them?

[DanDombrowski]

How often did you rotate the tires? How many miles on them?

They have 15,000 miles on them. I haven't rotated them due to the vibration they give in the rear. Didn't want to move that to the front.

I just rotated them myself now. The outside and insides of the front were more worn than the inner tread, but I always keep them inflated to 35psi. Nowhere near as bad as the inside of the rears.

I swapped the front to the back for now. When taking off the rears, I noticed that my dogbones are completely shot. Thats next on the list. It looks as if worn dogbones will let the car sit lower, but I might be grabbing at the solution I'm hoping for at this point.

Hey, if I can get another 10,000 like this, I'll probably be close to the life expentancy of the tire.

[genphreak]

e34's normally wear on the inside on the rears. How many miles have traveled on those tires?

Because of the negative camber (spec for the e34) it is normal wear and tear for inside wear. This is part of the reason why the car handles so well in corners. There is negative camber on the rear so that When turning - the weight of the car shifts to the outside - the tire then moves to a neutral camber putting all of the tread on the road for grip. Once through the turn the wheel returns to negative camber.

The Fronts will normally wear on the outside edges - by - design as well. There is nothing wrong with the car.

I am getting around 32k miles out of a set of Toyo Proxies (soft tire) as normal course of use.

Therefore - while I dont disagree you were dealing with an idiot - you need to be aware of the normal wear patterns for these cars - JTYep, and old e34s tend to sag in the arse- this compounds any problem with the cars natural alignment. BMW have special bushes that can be used to fix problems but sourcing and using these is beyond the attention span of most tyre shops.

People say the stock (rear) bushes are OK for heaps of kms, but I doubt they can be good after 15 years, even if they look alright.

I bet your cars rear camber and toe is way off. The tyre people don't like Bimmers for this exact reason, no adjustment and no-one will believe them that the rear is not right- and they can't show you what is wrong like they can with a Ford or GM when looking up from underneath the car.

It's just that a BMWs natural tendancy to wear on the inside (normally managed by rotation) is exacerbated by worn components that may not, obviously, be worn out.

Lowered springs make it worse. 1st step is rear shocks, shock mounts, subframe bushings and dogbones. Next step is all new bushes in the trailing arms and even the diff mount. Then it'll be on-spec unless you have a bent trailing arm (a common problem if driven into a gutter). :) Nick

[Russell]

New dogbones made the rear suspension feel much tighter and flatter when cornering. Nice easy fix.


They have 15,000 miles on them. I haven't rotated them due to the vibration they give in the rear. Didn't want to move that to the front.

I just rotated them myself now. The outside and insides of the front were more worn than the inner tread, but I always keep them inflated to 35psi. Nowhere near as bad as the inside of the rears.

I swapped the front to the back for now. When taking off the rears, I noticed that my dogbones are completely shot. Thats next on the list. It looks as if worn dogbones will let the car sit lower, but I might be grabbing at the solution I'm hoping for at this point.

Hey, if I can get another 10,000 like this, I'll probably be close to the life expentancy of the tire.

[Johntee540]

I have read on bulletin boards and in the tech section of Roundel that BMW does not recommend tire rotation. Reason being that the tires "wear into their position" on the car.

The Unusual wear on your front tires may be an inflation issue. I run 42 pounds front and 45 rear as recommended by my tire techs here in DC. Radial Tire is the company. They use only Hunter Roadforce equip and they do all the tires and wheels for most of the local race teams. - Tires are near and dear to my heart. I am happy to hear any other input folks have. I am always open to learning new things - JT

[Russell]

IMO, non rotation is wrong for street use when long tire life is important. Sure the car might handle a bit better if they are not rotated. I use my car as a daily commuter and long tire life with a good ride is imporant to me.

BTW, your tire pressure on my 225x60x15 tires would make my car ride like a truck. I currently use 31 front and 33 rear. Lower or higher psi the car seems to ride rougher. Go figure?



I have read on bulletin boards and in the tech section of Roundel that BMW does not recommend tire rotation. Reason being that the tires "wear into their position" on the car.

The Unusual wear on your front tires may be an inflation issue. I run 42 pounds front and 45 rear as recommended by my tire techs here in DC. Radial Tire is the company. They use only Hunter Roadforce equip and they do all the tires and wheels for most of the local race teams. - Tires are near and dear to my heart. I am happy to hear any other input folks have. I am always open to learning new things - JT