Gayle
03-01-2006, 02:20 AM
Let's breathe new life into a good thread that died a premature death.
hakwuzhere--you were right. This was a good thread and it is unfair to everyone to be deprived of the information because some people got into a pissing contest. Let's try again.
#1 Today, 06:45 AM
mholbrook
Strut Brace -- Take a look
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...Pr3_PcY_BIN_IT
I bought one of these strut braces and it came yesterday. Quality looks great and I don't anticipate any fit problems as it sat right on the bolts. I'm going to install this afternoon but wanted to pass this on to you guys.
The price seems right to me.
#2 Today, 07:12 AM
Alexlind123
It looks pretty good, i think i might prefer steel though.
SRR2
That looks a LOT more substantial than most of them. You have to laugh at those that have massive bars and mounting plates, then have a 1/4" threaded "adjuster" at one end. I don't recall whose was like that, but I think it was one of the 'name' brands. Ridiculous. I wonder how much the bow in the brace reduces the stiffness. Too bad the engine and hood placement prevents using a perfectly straight brace.
What do you expect this thing to do for you? Do you autocross the car or something where that little bit of extra rigidity will make a difference?
Scott H
Actually any brace that's not tied to the firewall is not......
substantially effective......but I hear what you are saying about the "adjustable" ones.....
#5 Today, 08:39 AM
zmuff
Looks like a pretty good deal. 6063 T-6 is good stuff, nice high shear and tensile strength, and very resistant to corrosion. I think I may have to get one. Let us know if goes on as easy as it looks.
#6 Today, 10:48 AM
ericcamaro
is there a bar made for the e34 that ties into the firewall as well??? doesnt seem like theres much room with the wireing harness right there and a bunch of other crap, prolly have to be a custom piece???
#7 Today, 11:25 AM
Erwin8r
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott H
substantially effective......but I hear what you are saying about the "adjustable" ones.....
Not true. The idea is to try to minimize the movement between the two shock towers. A straight bar between them would be ideal. A "bowed" bar is less than perfect, but still far better than none at all. And there is a discernable "tightening up" of the steering response and feel when running a strut tower brace even carving through canyon roads, let alone race track, time attack (might be doing some next week at Cal Speedway...) or autocross. Besides, a lot of the things we enthusiasts do to our cars cannot nor should not be justified using the "need" standard... just my .02....
#8 Today, 12:08 PM
hakwuzhere
Scott, Ive driven a few cars with strut tower bars, before and after. They were all similar to the bar listed in the auction above. I noticed a much more rigid feel to cornering and body roll. Is this not desireable for hard cornering? Or is it not improving the cornering capability?
I understand that none of these will preform as well as a custom fabricated strut tower bar on a racecar... but AFAIK no one here drives a 5 series racecar.
(Edit: Oh, and they do kinda look cool... so a $200 mod that improves handling somewhat and the looking cool is a bonus)
(Edit2: Im just a bit unclear on understeer vs oversteer, I know out of the box our cars are designed to understeer because that is easier to control, but oversteer if handled properly can improve performance. It says in the auction that a front strut tower bar lowers understeer. Which has a higher effect on understeer, front or rear strut bars?... along those same lines, front or rear sways? or should you just do both and reduce over and understeer....(does this question make sense?))
#9 Today, 12:27 PM
califblue
looks pretty good and has an attractive price.
here is HARTEG one
http://www.auto-mark.com/
#10 Today, 12:51 PM
mholbrook
1. I like the look and it's more "eye candy" for me than anything.
2. I had the Hartge bar on my 89 535. Good bar but has the bolt through both sides. Easy to move it out of the way if you have to for some reason like adjusting valves etc.
3. The Hartge bar was initially priced way, way below the $225 they want now. Which is why I bought it. I looked first for another "deal" like that but those days must be gone.
4. Like so many, I felt that if the bar was "solid" with no bolts etc in there, it would be stronger so when I saw this one for the right price (my opinion), I jumped on it.
5. This is just one small piece of the puzzle. I'm just warming up to my new to me 92 535. I might wait until I do the injectors and the valve cover before I install it......or not.
Forgot one thing.....Someone mentioned they wanted a steel bar. This guy makes them in steel too so just ask him and he'll probably do it for you.
#12 Today, 02:24 PM
Brandon J
For what's out there this does LOOK good. I think the Hartge ones are POS as I have seen them.
If we are talking about handling, then sways, suspension geometry with camber plates, springs, shocks, should be looked at.
If we are talking about body rigidity, then I would be better interested in an X-brace like the M3 lightweight.
I know several people with strut braces and the only noticeable gain I see is a harsher ride as energy from on tower is transfered to the other. I have seen very good braces that tie into the firewall or a rollcage, triangulating for better body rigidity.
I guess if I had a full race suspension, polyurethane bushings, and using slicks then I would get it b/c anything is better. But for the street, where compliance helps keep the tires in contact with the uneven surfaces of the road, I wouldn't get one. I have done well with a good spring/shock combo, good sways, great tires and camber plates.
#13 Today, 02:41 PM
hakwuzhere
Heh, dont think I sounded like I was trying to come off like an authority Scott. But at least you responded. Ive realized in my past few months here that thick skin is required for reading responses here, cause after you get through the initial assault, youll get some good information.
I have actually started to take interest in my car over the past few months... In my first bimmer, I just dropped it off at my mechanic at regular service intervals...and as long as it started and felt sporty... I was happy. My E34 is getting a bit more attention from me, and for the foreseeable future, people on the internet will have to deal with my uneducated posts and opinions... That is until the day when I feel comfortable that I know everything.
Thats the reason I dont post on A/V, IT or technology integration boards is cause of people like me...
Erwin8r Join Date: Feb 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brandon J
For what's out there this does LOOK good. I think the Hartge ones are POS as I have seen them.
If we are talking about handling, then sways, suspension geometry with camber plates, springs, shocks, should be looked at.
If we are talking about body rigidity, then I would be better interested in an X-brace like the M3 lightweight.
I know several people with strut braces and the only noticeable gain I see is a harsher ride as energy from on tower is transfered to the other. I have seen very good braces that tie into the firewall or a rollcage, triangulating for better body rigidity.
I guess if I had a full race suspension, polyurethane bushings, and using slicks then I would get it b/c anything is better. But for the street, where compliance helps keep the tires in contact with the uneven surfaces of the road, I wouldn't get one. I have done well with a good spring/shock combo, good sways, great tires and camber plates.
Handling/rigidity usually go hand in hand. I think the common ground is that we acknowledge that some compromise is necessary for a "street" car. My 540/6 is very solid and predictable until 8/10ths--then she gets a bit out of shape. Sure, it's no WRX or Elise, but I do appreciate the sharper feel of a finely integrated suspension/handling system and I know she can be drastically improved. This includes the correct sized sway bars, struts/shocks/springs, strut bars, adjustable camber plates front and rear, etc. I'm not ready to hack into the cabin for a half-cage (as a partner has dones with his barely-legal G35 coupe), and forced induction is a ways off, but a strut bar would not be in the "over the top" column on my to do list.... The LSD went in today (3.45), as did the AC Schnitzer steering wheel (the M-Tech II was just a wee bit too large at 385mm). I've got a line on some decent M-Tech springs, a set of Koni's, followed by M5 sways, then maybe that Canadian strut brace...
#15 Today, 04:27 PM
Hector
I have one exactly like yours and...
and I can feel the increased difference in stability when turning although small but noticeable. The strut brace performs at its best in cars with bigger wheels/wider tires. I believe I have posted here (or elsewhere) why this is the case.
.
hakwuzhere--you were right. This was a good thread and it is unfair to everyone to be deprived of the information because some people got into a pissing contest. Let's try again.
#1 Today, 06:45 AM
mholbrook
Strut Brace -- Take a look
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...Pr3_PcY_BIN_IT
I bought one of these strut braces and it came yesterday. Quality looks great and I don't anticipate any fit problems as it sat right on the bolts. I'm going to install this afternoon but wanted to pass this on to you guys.
The price seems right to me.
#2 Today, 07:12 AM
Alexlind123
It looks pretty good, i think i might prefer steel though.
SRR2
That looks a LOT more substantial than most of them. You have to laugh at those that have massive bars and mounting plates, then have a 1/4" threaded "adjuster" at one end. I don't recall whose was like that, but I think it was one of the 'name' brands. Ridiculous. I wonder how much the bow in the brace reduces the stiffness. Too bad the engine and hood placement prevents using a perfectly straight brace.
What do you expect this thing to do for you? Do you autocross the car or something where that little bit of extra rigidity will make a difference?
Scott H
Actually any brace that's not tied to the firewall is not......
substantially effective......but I hear what you are saying about the "adjustable" ones.....
#5 Today, 08:39 AM
zmuff
Looks like a pretty good deal. 6063 T-6 is good stuff, nice high shear and tensile strength, and very resistant to corrosion. I think I may have to get one. Let us know if goes on as easy as it looks.
#6 Today, 10:48 AM
ericcamaro
is there a bar made for the e34 that ties into the firewall as well??? doesnt seem like theres much room with the wireing harness right there and a bunch of other crap, prolly have to be a custom piece???
#7 Today, 11:25 AM
Erwin8r
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott H
substantially effective......but I hear what you are saying about the "adjustable" ones.....
Not true. The idea is to try to minimize the movement between the two shock towers. A straight bar between them would be ideal. A "bowed" bar is less than perfect, but still far better than none at all. And there is a discernable "tightening up" of the steering response and feel when running a strut tower brace even carving through canyon roads, let alone race track, time attack (might be doing some next week at Cal Speedway...) or autocross. Besides, a lot of the things we enthusiasts do to our cars cannot nor should not be justified using the "need" standard... just my .02....
#8 Today, 12:08 PM
hakwuzhere
Scott, Ive driven a few cars with strut tower bars, before and after. They were all similar to the bar listed in the auction above. I noticed a much more rigid feel to cornering and body roll. Is this not desireable for hard cornering? Or is it not improving the cornering capability?
I understand that none of these will preform as well as a custom fabricated strut tower bar on a racecar... but AFAIK no one here drives a 5 series racecar.
(Edit: Oh, and they do kinda look cool... so a $200 mod that improves handling somewhat and the looking cool is a bonus)
(Edit2: Im just a bit unclear on understeer vs oversteer, I know out of the box our cars are designed to understeer because that is easier to control, but oversteer if handled properly can improve performance. It says in the auction that a front strut tower bar lowers understeer. Which has a higher effect on understeer, front or rear strut bars?... along those same lines, front or rear sways? or should you just do both and reduce over and understeer....(does this question make sense?))
#9 Today, 12:27 PM
califblue
looks pretty good and has an attractive price.
here is HARTEG one
http://www.auto-mark.com/
#10 Today, 12:51 PM
mholbrook
1. I like the look and it's more "eye candy" for me than anything.
2. I had the Hartge bar on my 89 535. Good bar but has the bolt through both sides. Easy to move it out of the way if you have to for some reason like adjusting valves etc.
3. The Hartge bar was initially priced way, way below the $225 they want now. Which is why I bought it. I looked first for another "deal" like that but those days must be gone.
4. Like so many, I felt that if the bar was "solid" with no bolts etc in there, it would be stronger so when I saw this one for the right price (my opinion), I jumped on it.
5. This is just one small piece of the puzzle. I'm just warming up to my new to me 92 535. I might wait until I do the injectors and the valve cover before I install it......or not.
Forgot one thing.....Someone mentioned they wanted a steel bar. This guy makes them in steel too so just ask him and he'll probably do it for you.
#12 Today, 02:24 PM
Brandon J
For what's out there this does LOOK good. I think the Hartge ones are POS as I have seen them.
If we are talking about handling, then sways, suspension geometry with camber plates, springs, shocks, should be looked at.
If we are talking about body rigidity, then I would be better interested in an X-brace like the M3 lightweight.
I know several people with strut braces and the only noticeable gain I see is a harsher ride as energy from on tower is transfered to the other. I have seen very good braces that tie into the firewall or a rollcage, triangulating for better body rigidity.
I guess if I had a full race suspension, polyurethane bushings, and using slicks then I would get it b/c anything is better. But for the street, where compliance helps keep the tires in contact with the uneven surfaces of the road, I wouldn't get one. I have done well with a good spring/shock combo, good sways, great tires and camber plates.
#13 Today, 02:41 PM
hakwuzhere
Heh, dont think I sounded like I was trying to come off like an authority Scott. But at least you responded. Ive realized in my past few months here that thick skin is required for reading responses here, cause after you get through the initial assault, youll get some good information.
I have actually started to take interest in my car over the past few months... In my first bimmer, I just dropped it off at my mechanic at regular service intervals...and as long as it started and felt sporty... I was happy. My E34 is getting a bit more attention from me, and for the foreseeable future, people on the internet will have to deal with my uneducated posts and opinions... That is until the day when I feel comfortable that I know everything.
Thats the reason I dont post on A/V, IT or technology integration boards is cause of people like me...
Erwin8r Join Date: Feb 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brandon J
For what's out there this does LOOK good. I think the Hartge ones are POS as I have seen them.
If we are talking about handling, then sways, suspension geometry with camber plates, springs, shocks, should be looked at.
If we are talking about body rigidity, then I would be better interested in an X-brace like the M3 lightweight.
I know several people with strut braces and the only noticeable gain I see is a harsher ride as energy from on tower is transfered to the other. I have seen very good braces that tie into the firewall or a rollcage, triangulating for better body rigidity.
I guess if I had a full race suspension, polyurethane bushings, and using slicks then I would get it b/c anything is better. But for the street, where compliance helps keep the tires in contact with the uneven surfaces of the road, I wouldn't get one. I have done well with a good spring/shock combo, good sways, great tires and camber plates.
Handling/rigidity usually go hand in hand. I think the common ground is that we acknowledge that some compromise is necessary for a "street" car. My 540/6 is very solid and predictable until 8/10ths--then she gets a bit out of shape. Sure, it's no WRX or Elise, but I do appreciate the sharper feel of a finely integrated suspension/handling system and I know she can be drastically improved. This includes the correct sized sway bars, struts/shocks/springs, strut bars, adjustable camber plates front and rear, etc. I'm not ready to hack into the cabin for a half-cage (as a partner has dones with his barely-legal G35 coupe), and forced induction is a ways off, but a strut bar would not be in the "over the top" column on my to do list.... The LSD went in today (3.45), as did the AC Schnitzer steering wheel (the M-Tech II was just a wee bit too large at 385mm). I've got a line on some decent M-Tech springs, a set of Koni's, followed by M5 sways, then maybe that Canadian strut brace...
#15 Today, 04:27 PM
Hector
I have one exactly like yours and...
and I can feel the increased difference in stability when turning although small but noticeable. The strut brace performs at its best in cars with bigger wheels/wider tires. I believe I have posted here (or elsewhere) why this is the case.
.