Not a joke poll.

[Gayle]

As I expressed in Charles's joke poll, I think we need return to the previously level of moderators this board has historically had for the sole purpose of put an early end to the deliberately inflamatory posts that turn into thread wars. We can all recognize the type of post that is just designed to stir up _____. I am not talking about censoring the regulars. I understand that it is censorship that made people leave roadfly and found this forum. But there is a middle ground between censorship and anarchy. We have no mechanism in place to deal with the occasional troublemaker who goes way over the line.

Examples of inflamatory posts are:

1. UMK5
2. that woman whose name I don't remember who made a string of posts claiming this guy was a lyer and thief because they were from the same city
3. cschollum
4. HDhandyman's starving children picture

Anything below this level of rudeness and ____ stirring is ok. It is the joking and sense is play that makes the board what it is. Don't want to end that.

This would be a return to the level of moderation in place a year ago when there were two moderators (Illya and Bimmerd00d) and the moderators were reading board on a regular basis and intervening in the extreme circumstances.

[DanH]

We only need mods for really abusive posters whose intent is to sabotage the forum.

If you don't like someone's posting style you can go to UserCP-->Buddy/Ignore List-->Add their userid to the ignore list. No more problem with them.

[Paul in NZ]

I agree,if we ignore those posts they will go away....

[Gayle]

People are unable to ignore the really inflamatory posts. It only takes one or two to respond to an inflamatory post and the thread wars start. 98 people can ignore and 2 respond and there you are.

And Dan makes my point exactly. We need the mods only to deal with the really inflamatory ones whose intent is to sabatoge the forum.

[Zeuk in Oz]

Have to say I agree with Paul in NZ on this one Gayle.

All we need is to tell these people off, however others must see this for what it is, not inflammation rather putting people in their place.
They will eventually go away when they are subsequently ignored.

Nothing wrong with a good, spirited, argument. :D

[genphreak]

We need mods for the occasional marauder and argumentative troll.

When these people take up space on the forum, they bore, annoy or just make life plain hard for the regulars, and stop knowledgable people engaging with an otherwise fun and productive community. I have no doubt they turn off newbies who might otherwise stay and become great contributors.

So I voted completely for mods- esp. as the current mod team have done very well.

However- we need some cool rules to make the moderators' roles less contraversial and to prevent arguments over what and what isn't acceptable. I've never been able to find any on the forum; so to help people be clear about what I mean- I am suggesting a set of rules best summmarised as follows:

Introduction

By maintaining an account and posting on the bimmer.info forums, you hereby agree to abide by the rules below.

Breaching these rules can result in post or thread deletion, and continued breaches can result in your user account being put into the penalty box on either a temporary (binned) or permanent (banned) basis.

What do the Rules apply to?

The rules apply to all of the following:

• post contents,
• quoting of post contents,
• thread titles,
• quips,
• usernames,
• wiki entries,
• web links on personal pages,
• public email addresses,
• etc.

The Rules (Summary)

• No abuse, insults or personal attacks
• No foul language
• No trolling
• No inappropriate or illegal material
• No "For Sale" or "Wanted to Buy", except in the For Sale forum
• No business advertising, except in the For Sale forum
• No forum spamming
• No "religious" debates
• No defamatory comments
• No complaints about moderation (PM a mod instead)


A set of rules like those above enables a mod to moderate withut argument from others as everyone has agreed to the rules in the first place. Debate can be made about rules at any point so they may remain current, but not without breaching them. Posters whose contributions are moderated can be referred to the rules to prevent uninformed reactions polluting the forums further.

This is what most forums have. Now the bimmer.info community has grown we need the same.

I can define these rules more deeply (but its a lot of work) so I'll only do it if others agree its a good idea and I get some input along the way.

For the moment I thought a summary would be best for floating the idea. Please bare in mind the rules are exactly that; they are only rules. How much members are drawn to account on them is all up to the mod team at the time!
;) Nick

[632 Regal]

how bout a big ass stun gun that would zap them through their pc screen?

http://www.pointshooting.com/result.jpg

[genphreak]

The trouble with rules are that a moderator will have trouble enforcing them when they break them themselves... as even idiots can effectively point out hyporcrisy when they see it.

This can make a mods work less fun (of course you know we all love your contributions Jeff :)), but other forums take the trouble to do this as it reduces the workload on mods by 90%.

I can't see the rules being called on to support a mods decision once they become adopted- well maybe a few times a year at most.

[632 Regal]

I forsee mayhem no matter how you slice it.


The trouble with rules are that a moderator will have trouble enforcing them when they break them themselves... as even idiots can effectively point out hyporcrisy when they see it.

This can make a mods work less fun (of course you know we all love your contributions Jeff :)), but other forums take the trouble to do this as it reduces the workload on mods by 90%.

I can't see the rules being called on to support a mods decision once they become adopted- well maybe a few times a year at most.

[Dave M]

I forsee mayhem no matter how you slice it.

Agree with Jeff,

We can't be "cut and dry". I for one would enjoy throwing a 'for sale' add up on the main page every now and then.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/dave_macisaac/chinese20food2010012347t.jpg

If there is a way of distinguishing between the malicious threads and those that are otherwise well meaning, then I say we go for it!

Nothing short of difficult if you ask me. If we can deal on a case by case basis with the ars-pics, which i think we have done, then lets continue on our merry path.

it ain't all that bad. Ive been here for 4 years and i'm not goin anywheres soone. I didn't mind mind ukm, I just thought he was a prick ;)

Dave M

[SharkmanBMW]

Have to say I agree with Paul in NZ on this one Gayle.

All we need is to tell these people off, however others must see this for what it is, not inflammation rather putting people in their place.
They will eventually go away when they are subsequently ignored.

Nothing wrong with a good, spirited, argument. :D


ditto,
we blasted ukm5,he got out of here, and it took a year for him to return as cschollum!
now he seems to be gone too, we did ok!

Thankfully, these clowns are few and far between.

[Gayle]

Sharkman, Zeuk, Jeff, and some of the rest of you--ask yourself why you want the current system of vigalante justice to continue. To quote Dacoyote, some of the stuff we do as vigalantes is "just too funny".

I have been one of the people involved in adminstering "justice" around here. I tried to reason with UKM5. I snitched to Ed on the woman who screamed thief and lyer. I started a poll intended to shame cschollum. And I have to say "it was all fun".

It is fun being a bully. It is fun triumphing over a jerk. It was kind of a wicked pleasure. The part of me that has viewed dealing with the jerks as fun wanted the old system to continue.

It seemed more ok when it was a smaller group of regulars. We all understood what was going on. Now there are so many newbies, I don't think that system is right anymore.

I still remember how nervous I was posting for about the first three months I posted. I was afraid I would say something stupid. I was afraid of offending people. Can't you guys remember how intimidating it was when you were newbies?

Can you imagine how intimidating it is for the new people to see us crucify someone? They don't know the norms well enough to know what is ok and what someone is going to get spanked for. To make my point, Nat (angry pancake) was asking me about the rules just a few weeks ago. Jeff (632 regal) is always talking about getting banned. If pancake and Jeff can't figure out what the limits are and what they are going to get spanked for, who can?

Think about the newbies. They don't know the rules and they see us deal with offenders by crucification by so called moderators. I don't think it sets the right tone for the board.

If you doubt what I am saying, look who voted yes so far. For the most part it is not people in the post whore club (we know who we are). We need to be more civilized for the newbies. It is not just our little club anymore.

[DanH]

Agree with Dave, some of Nicks rules are a bit too strict, i see nothing wrong with f/s ads once in awhile on the main forum.

We also should be feel free to complain about oppression by the mods if it occurs. All mods are not created inerrably omnipotent...

I have withheld my vote since the definition of "inflammatory post" varies depending upon the interpretation of who is reading it. Obviously at some point everyone will agree that we need Mods to stop an out-of-control forum terrorist.

Some things may have been censored in the past, which i think could have been just as easily left up for everyone to interpret and ignore on their own.

There should be a high bar set to determine what deserves censorship.


Agree with Jeff,

We can't be "cut and dry". I for one would enjoy throwing a 'for sale' add up on the main page every now and then.


If there is a way of distinguishing between the malicious threads and those that are otherwise well meaning, then I say we go for it!

Nothing short of difficult if you ask me. If we can deal on a case by case basis with the ars-pics, which i think we have done, then lets continue on our merry path.

it ain't all that bad. Ive been here for 4 years and i'm not goin anywheres soone. I didn't mind mind ukm, I just thought he was a prick ;)

Dave M

[632 Regal]

i just dont know the candidates well enough for an informed descision...:D


Sharkman, Zeuk, Jeff, and some of the rest of you--ask yourself why you want the current system of vigalante justice to continue. To quote Dacoyote, some of the stuff we do as vigalantes is "just too funny".

I have been one of the people involved in adminstering "justice" around here. I tried to reason with UKM5. I snitched to Ed on the woman who screamed thief and lyer. I started a poll intended to shame cschollum. And I have to say "it was all fun".

It is fun being a bully. It is fun triumphing over a jerk. It was kind of a wicked pleasure. The part of me that has viewed dealing with the jerks as fun wanted the old system to continue.

It seemed more ok when it was a smaller group of regulars. We all understood what was going on. Now there are so many newbies, I don't think that system is right anymore.

I still remember how nervous I was posting for about the first three months I posted. I was afraid I would say something stupid. I was afraid of offending people. Can't you guys remember how intimidating it was when you were newbies?

Can you imagine how intimidating it is for the new people to see us crucify someone? They don't know the norms well enough to know what is ok and what someone is going to get spanked for. To make my point, Nat (angry pancake) was asking me about the rules just a few weeks ago. Jeff (632 regal) is always talking about getting banned. If pancake and Jeff can't figure out what the limits are and what they are going to get spanked for, who can?

Think about the newbies. They don't know the rules and they see us deal with offenders by crucification by so called moderators. I don't think it sets the right tone for the board.

If you doubt what I am saying, look who voted yes so far. For the most part it is not people in the post whore club (we know who we are). We need to be more civilized for the newbies. It is not just our little club anymore.

[wingman]

Who will moderate the moderators? There will have to be a set of rules drawn up by the board for the moderators to work within. The last thing we need is for the moderators to adopt the "this is a democracy but if you want an opinion I'll give it to you" attitude. I'm a relative newbie but a little common sense has got me by so far. Just MHO.:)

[632 Regal]

To quote Dacoyote, some of the stuff we do as vigalantes is "just too funny".
It is!


Can't you guys remember how intimidating it was when you were newbies?
Not in the slightest...


To make my point, Nat (angry pancake) was asking me about the rules just a few weeks ago. Jeff (632 regal) is always talking about getting banned. If pancake and Jeff can't figure out what the limits are and what they are going to get spanked for, who can?
If you think I didnt catch the rules the first day I came to this place and checked it out you havent done YOUR homework. The threats of being banned can and does curtail assassins...Even Dacoyote thought I could ban him...LMFAO, he was on very good behavior and I still didnt tell the little secret about banning to him. Besides, who in the hell is Dacoyote anyways?



We need to be more civilized for the newbies.
HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!! You CAN'T be serious?

[632 Regal]

and yes I did get a PM from Ed to curtail saying the word S_ut because some whiny baby couldnt mention it to me first and instead went crying to the owner of the board. Over the years I have got 1 PM regarding something not appropriate and went further to explain that their daughter might see what was written...I complied.

[632 Regal]

you are dead nuts on here
Who will moderate the moderators? There will have to be a set of rules drawn up by the board for the moderators to work within. The last thing we need is for the moderators to adopt the "this is a democracy but if you want an opinion I'll give it to you" attitude. I'm a relative newbie but a little common sense has got me by so far. Just MHO.:)

[Traian]

Most other boards have mods with similar privileges. Doesn't lead to mayhem. Just depends on the mods themselves. Maybe we could hold a vote for them.

[angrypancake]

Pancake for the people!

[Paul in NZ]

In a strange coincidemce we have a vote for mods goin on on another bimmer board i frequent....I want to hear what ed thinks...

[genphreak]

you are dead nuts on here

Who mods the mods is an important point. I know you don't feel powerful Jeff, but many others would be percieving you as such. I'm all for some fun, but that comment (on the surface) sure reads to me as an Over The Top (OTT) reaction to Wingman's post. However I take it with a pinch of salt as I probably don't get your context in which you say it. On the other hand, I can see he too might be over the top from your POV :)

HOWEVER, this illustrates kinda what I am talking about; ie , if the barb was directed at a lesser person he might seek to clarify it (perhaps in a similarly misunderstandable way) and before you know it there goes a big spat (with people 'defending their reputations'); one we could all do without.

Gayle is dead right. She is considering many people's point of view and taking the time to explain it for the rest of us. We really need to prevent the verbal stoushes, they are ugly to newbies and make the place seem like it is run by the thugs- so much of it is so easily out of context to those who do not know the personalities or history involved.

On an International forum that is well on its way to being a truly great community, there needs to be an air of sensitivity. Many online communities have been taken to the cleaners by people (and businesses) that have been denigrated and/or defamed. Once things get bigger this sort of thing easily becomes a problem. Often just cultrural misunderstandings can make a few words seem unreasonable when they are read out of the real context in whic the member wrote them. There is also a risk issue for the forum itself but I don't think we are quite there (big enough) yet. However a set of rules seems good preparation.

Most forums have teh rules setup before the mods as I said earlier, I still can't work out why it is not this way here, except that regulation requires effort and risks pissing some people off. We might enjoy the banter, fun and jokes as well as our various common interests, but I know that having mods without rules leaves the back door open and risks dictator sports starting (even if mod powers are not real and are simply percieved).

btw, thanks for the thoughts- I agree my rules are too strict for us now. They are just the sorts of things I am used and wanted to put them up for consideration here.

[632 Regal]

Ed probably thinks were more of a PITA than it's worth...

[632 Regal]

your on the right track with the rules...for the future when were a lot bigger but them kinds of rules will probably at this time cause boredom and we would lose most of the people that do in fact help nubes and each other. I for one do try at times (at least once per month) try to answer a question legitimately. I myself have asked legitimate questions and never got an answer... much lower than the average people. I try to help anyone that has a question especially if its going off the first 2 pages without an answer at least in an attempt to revive the thread (bump) and let others that may know whats going on see it. I was on a forum that enforced the rules and quite basicly it had NO personality, was very boring, dry and not fun at all...did I find what I was looking for? No cause I didnt post in the appropriate section (I guessed with about 50 to choose from) I just googled another search and found a nice board semi similar to ours and got a reply within a day to my question.

What I really detest is bad and wrong advise (I am guilty also) from nube to nube, this is the crap that can ruin the reputation of Bimmer.info. Mild swearing and severe off topic I dont mind unless it is like your rules state "personal attack, religion etc" which is in Eds read me sticky. But from the loks of it theres 600 more views to my Nikasil sticky than Eds rules that was stickied way before mine. This leads me to believe that nube's dont read it AND dont care about whats in it.

If the simple rules were followed we wouldnt need to waste time here. When we get a-holes that had a real bad day picking on everyone for NO reason thats the only time we need intervention...and nubes bad advice posts, which is why I developed the "use the search button" sticky.

Anyways for what its worth, I like the place like it is but to actually be able to nuke someone as chscrotum in the bud would have made things a lot nicer. The point of moving his thread to the classifieds was beyond great, it took him about 2 hours to figure out where it went before he came back and attacked again.

[genphreak]

Ed probably thinks were more of a PITA than it's worth...Agreed. But he is not as hands-on as most... :) That's our great but busy Ed!

Since he is the only real 'mod', his say is what counts ultimately...

One thing I should point out tho, having rules is usually less of a restriction (practically speaking) on members's postings than moderating every post manually- as the onous is more on the members to comply than the mods to moderate.

I can't believe I am saying all this tho, I am against rules and laws more often than not

:) Nick

[wingman]

I was on a forum that enforced the rules and quite basicly it had NO personality, was very boring, dry and not fun at all...did I find what I was looking for? No cause I didnt post in the appropriate section (I guessed with about 50 to choose from)


This is essentially what I was trying to say with my post. If we were over-policed and there was no place for common sense to prevail it would be a dull place indeed.

[HDhandyman]

It won't be that bad, guys. This is all about what happens when a noob realizes that the existing mods don't have real mod powers. They are already used to it on other V-Bulletin forums. We can get used to it as well.

Gen, I think your willingness to handle this issue in a mature fashion is comendable, thank you.

I also don't think that true mods will sterilize this place the way you think. In a nicely modded forum, all the work of the mods is taken care of away from the population. Mods can have there own stickies with instructions and messages from the Admin. that the popultion won't be able to access. It usually works best if the mods are not "initial buds", and come from different walks of life. This way they can be here at different times and only hold allegiance to the board, not to each other.

Just cause I'm crazy about you guys, I'll tell you that I actually (and this is personal) go to a heavily modded forum about Harry Potter where people write vulgar short stories about fantastical relationships within that universe. I go because the writing is great, and I'm into Harry Potter theory. As it turns out, it's actually the best site for Potter theorists because the people there are unrestricted and incredibly briliant. Yet they also write Harloquen romance novels about sexual relationships within the Harry Potter Universe. Other Potter sites attrack the soccer mom crowd, and I hate em cause they're boring--they are also sterile with only slight modderation. The point is that even though the good site is heavily moderated, people feel secure enough there to just " go off" in terms of creativity and thought. Bottom line, it's all about the spirit of the board, and not what the mods do.

Jeff, I know this is a busy time, but are you or somebody going to address the issues I brought up about cataloging (new guy topics and a petition to locate a V-Bulletin programmer who can write the app for a nicer search function)? I really don't think now is the time for me to start another thread, but I don't want this one swept under the rug.

Thanks, guys!

[Javier]

as this kind of attention is just what the saboteurs would like. We have the freedom to read or ignore what we do not like, so any one trying to get attention (that is the only reason I see for bad manners) will bore and quit.

To ban somebody is not that simple, they can just register back on another login and keep bothering till eternity!

I like the forum as it is, just pick what to read, and quit reading what I feel not interested in, yesterday put my first guy in the ignore list, so will not use my screen space to display his bad intentioned posts. I am available trough PM and e-mail for any one that wants to call my attention to any thread I can miss and may be important to me, and also to any body that feels I offended him and want me to rectify. I also make mistakes, and am willing to fix them, but will hurt me to get attitude from any buddy, as are all the moderators.

Javier

[mikell]

MORE RULES!! No, I agree with Jeff. Just look at all the replies the "bad" threads get - if they are so obnoxious, just move on to a thread that has interest for you - nobody requires anyone to read or contribute. The bad apples will rot and fall off on their own, unless they get encouragement.

[Anthony (M5 in Calgary)]

Who is on the other end of the little button at the upper right of each post window? You know, the triangle with the red outline and ! in the center which is marked "report bad post".

Once a few different people hit the button on the same poster, action or review could take place. Warnings, suspensions and banning to follow at the discretion of the mods.

That's about as far as I'd go.

[Gayle]

I think it is pretty clear that no one wants the forum to lose its personality. No one wants a bunch of restrictive rules.

What I am proposing in this poll is someone to deal with the MOST EXTREME situations. We are talking about the sabotuers that float through about 4 times a year.

As I envision it, it would be dealing with the situations that are so extreme we are all pretty much in agreement that they are over the line as have been in the 4 examples in the first post.

Restricting 1% of the freedom here does not take away the other 99%.

The more routine problems are dealt with on an ignore basis as many have suggested.

[Traian]

I for one do try at times (at least once per month) try to answer a question legitimately. I myself have asked legitimate questions and never got an answer... much lower than the average people.

You're one of the best and most helpful folks on the board.

[632 Regal]

Thanks!!! Appreciated.
You're one of the best and most helpful folks on the board.

[ryan roopnarine]

as it is a public poll, i'm surpised to see one of the names on there. perhaps he will get what he deserves one day.

asides aside, i don't care for the idea of a "moderator", per se. i've always thought that the biggest bulwark against jackassery and loss of civility was NOT the ability for the moderator to delete threads, but to lock the thread temporarily, not deleting anything anyone says, allowing everybody to see the jackassery in question, but preventing an escalation of the situation. i think that the "report bad posts" button should be coupled to a threshold (like 10 )that automatically locks the thread when enough "bad post" hits have achieved. the mods or even the current librarians could then present the problem to the rest of the board to determine what should be done next (by consensus)/ ed, of course, could delete stuff as he can now, but nobody else can pre-emptively delete posts or threads.

ps--i suggest the "auto" lock because we don't really have that big of a troll problem here, i don't think there is much of a danger of people irrationally locking threads out because they don't like something being said.

[Bimmer Nut Ed]

OK, GREAT CONVERSATION. I think Gayle's post (quoted below) sums up the issue. 4 times a year there may be "bad" posts or posters, or "sabotuers" as Gayle describes. Remember, that's only 4 times a year at most.

All anyone has to do is PM me (or simply click the warning triangle to the top right of the post) and I will address the situation. Consider yourselves all empowered to judge these sabotuers and contact me. Just as when I asked Jeff to tone down the "slut" references. I do take action, even when it's subjectively offensive. In the example with Jeff, I did not castrate Jeff, I just shared with him that someone was offended.

I consider banning a last resort. I am totally for free speech. Remember, this is why we left raodflee. I think this was a great discussion, I think it represented some very good views. I thank you all for your input. You are all very welcome to click on the warning triangle and report bad posts to me. I may be slow, but I will take action.

Also, as far as cleaning up some of the crap posts in the archive forums, Jeff has brought an idea to me that may very well work out. I'm testing it with Jeff now.

You all are the best. Have a good one!


I think it is pretty clear that no one wants the forum to lose its personality. No one wants a bunch of restrictive rules.

What I am proposing in this poll is someone to deal with the MOST EXTREME situations. We are talking about the sabotuers that float through about 4 times a year.

As I envision it, it would be dealing with the situations that are so extreme we are all pretty much in agreement that they are over the line as have been in the 4 examples in the first post.

Restricting 1% of the freedom here does not take away the other 99%.

The more routine problems are dealt with on an ignore basis as many have suggested.

[632 Regal]

I like this idea.


as it is a public poll, i'm surpised to see one of the names on there. perhaps he will get what he deserves one day.

asides aside, i don't care for the idea of a "moderator", per se. i've always thought that the biggest bulwark against jackassery and loss of civility was NOT the ability for the moderator to delete threads, but to lock the thread temporarily, not deleting anything anyone says, allowing everybody to see the jackassery in question, but preventing an escalation of the situation. i think that the "report bad posts" button should be coupled to a threshold (like 10 )that automatically locks the thread when enough "bad post" hits have achieved. the mods or even the current librarians could then present the problem to the rest of the board to determine what should be done next (by consensus)/ ed, of course, could delete stuff as he can now, but nobody else can pre-emptively delete posts or threads.

ps--i suggest the "auto" lock because we don't really have that big of a troll problem here, i don't think there is much of a danger of people irrationally locking threads out because they arbitrarily don't like something being said.

[632 Regal]

OK i reported Eds bad language...LOL.

I pressed the triangle thing, did it do anything at all? anyone get it?



OK, GREAT CONVERSATION. I think Gayle's post (quoted below) sums up the issue. 4 times a year there may be "bad" posts or posters, or "sabotuers" as Gayle describes. Remember, that's only 4 times a year at most.

All anyone has to do is PM me (or simply click the warning triangle to the top right of the post) and I will address the situation. Consider yourselves all empowered to judge these sabotuers and contact me. Just as when I asked Jeff to tone down the "slut" references. I do take action, even when it's subjectively offensive. In the example with Jeff, I did not castrate Jeff, I just shared with him that someone was offended.

I consider banning a last resort. I am totally for free speech. Remember, this is why we left raodflee. I think this was a great discussion, I think it represented some very good views. I thank you all for your input. You are all very welcome to click on the warning triangle and report bad posts to me. I may be slow, but I will take action.

Also, as far as cleaning up some of the crap posts in the archive forums, Jeff has brought an idea to me that may very well work out. I'm testing it with Jeff now.

You all are the best. Have a good one!

[dacoyote]

OK i reported Eds bad language...LOL.

I pressed the triangle thing, did it do anything at all? anyone get it?

I got it... can I report your bad grammer?

[632 Regal]

if you want...I only see that BillB got the notice.

this isnt good man.


I got it... can I report your bad grammer?

[dacoyote]

To quote Dacoyote, some of the stuff we do as vigalantes is "just too funny".

It is funny.... if you aren't having fun Gayle... then I would suggest you leave and let the big boys play


If you think I didnt catch the rules the first day I came to this place and checked it out you havent done YOUR homework. The threats of being banned can and does curtail assassins...Even Dacoyote thought I could ban him...LMFAO, he was on very good behavior and I still didnt tell the little secret about banning to him. Besides, who in the hell is Dacoyote anyways?

Jeff... I have words for you... that I would post... other then Ed prop would ban or pm me...


We need to be more civilized for the newbies.

We are nice to the newbies... notice how you made it past the 1000 post stage...

[Zeuk in Oz]

I have been one of the people involved in adminstering "justice" around here..........And I have to say "it was all fun"........It is fun being a bully.
Gayle, may I address one point first. When I said "nothing wrong with a good, spirited, argument" I was not suggesting this to imply that I would enjoy putting someone in their place. I meant forum "toing and froing" in general - daily thrust and parry, as it were.
When I posted my homeless post to try to make a point to HDhandyman that his starving children post was way out of order, or put him in his place if you like, I did not enjoy doing so. I actually felt sad that he had not realised how inappropriate his post had been in the first place.
I still felt the need to do it however as without a wake-up call he might have continued on in this vein. I was surpsied that others thought what I was doing was as inappropriate as his initial post, however.
Now we are informed by HDhandyman that this was a "science experiment" .
Perhaps this is another manifestation of the cultural differences seen with some many different nationalities on the forum.
I subsequently deleted my posts as they had served their purpose.
I see this as nothing different to teaching children right from wrong.
I do not see it as being a bully as once a lesson is learned, we can all move on.
My concern with moderators is firstly that it is too onerous and difficult a job to expect anyone to do. I take Tony's (wingman) point and also ask who will moderate the moderators - and even more impossible task.
Nick's (Genphreak) list of rules is admirable, however I feel that this sort of straight-jacket approach will detract massively from some of the genuinely witty and spontaneous posts that we have seen over the years.
I applaud you Jeff (632 Regal) for your attitude and your dedication. Anything to stifle those with Jeff's sense of humour would be sacrilege.
My other objection to a set of rules is that interpetation of them would be difficult. Nick picks on religion as being a no-go area. I would ask why ? Is not the freedom to be atheist and therefore question anything religious just as important and honourable an ideal as to hold strong religious views and so question atheism ?
For what my opinion is worth, I say go forth as we are. The fact that we have lots of new members is a product of our success, so lets muddle on and hopefully have a little fun on the way ! :)

[632 Regal]

religion....long ago George Mann totally persecuted someone here calling them God fearing and on and on...it was totally uncalled for and I personally felt other than love for our "good" friend George. Too bad he is gone now for im sure we ALL appreciated his long winded personal attacks.


Gayle, may I address one point first. When I said "nothing wrong with a good, spirited, argument" I was not suggesting this to imply that I would enjoy putting someone in their place. I meant forum "toing and froing" in general - daily thrust and parry, as it were.
When I posted my homeless post to try to make a point to HDhandyman that his starving children post was way out of order, or put him in his place if you like, I did not enjoy doing so. I actually felt sad that he had not realised how inappropriate his post had been in the first place.
I still felt the need to do it however as without a wake-up call he might have continued on in this vein. I was surpsied that others thought what I was doing was as inappropriate as his initial post, however.
Now we are informed by HDhandyman that this was a "science experiment" .
Perhaps this is another manifestation of the cultural differences seen with some many different nationalities on the forum.
I subsequently deleted my posts as they had served their purpose.
I see this as nothing different to teaching children right from wrong.
I do not see it as being a bully as once a lesson is learned, we can all move on.
My concern with moderators is firstly that it is too onerous and difficult a job to expect anyone to do. I take Tony's (wingman) point and also ask who will moderate the moderators - and even more impossible task.
Nick's (Genphreak) list of rules is admirable, however I feel that this sort of straight-jacket approach will detract massively from some of the genuinely witty and spontaneous posts that we have seen over the years.
I applaud you Jeff (632 Regal) for your attitude and your dedication. Anything to stifle those with Jeff's sense of humour would be sacrilege.
My other objection to a set of rules is that interpetation of them would be difficult. Nick picks on religion as being a no-go area. I would ask why ? Is not the freedom to be atheist and therefore question anything religious just as important and honourable an ideal as to hold strong religious views and so question atheism ?
For what my opinion is worth, I say go forth as we are. The fact that we have lots of new members is a product of our success, so lets muddle on and hopefully have a little fun on the way ! :)

[dacoyote]

religion....long ago George Mann totally persecuted someone here calling them God fearing and on and on...it was totally uncalled for and I personally felt other than love for our "good" friend George. Too bad he is gone now for im sure we ALL appreciated his long winded personal attacks.

Lets talk about religion... it is my favorite topic...

[angrypancake]

http://img216.imageshack.us/img216/8303/jesus18kp.jpg
http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/1861/5632nr.jpg

[632 Regal]

and they told me the sandman wasnt real...

[Alan_525i]

It won't be that bad, guys. This is all about what happens when a noob realizes that the existing mods don't have real mod powers. They are already used to it on other V-Bulletin forums. We can get used to it as well.

Gen, I think your willingness to handle this issue in a mature fashion is comendable, thank you.

I also don't think that true mods will sterilize this place the way you think. In a nicely modded forum, all the work of the mods is taken care of away from the population. Mods can have there own stickies with instructions and messages from the Admin. that the popultion won't be able to access. It usually works best if the mods are not "initial buds", and come from different walks of life. This way they can be here at different times and only hold allegiance to the board, not to each other.

Just cause I'm crazy about you guys, I'll tell you that I actually (and this is personal) go to a heavily modded forum about Harry Potter where people write vulgar short stories about fantastical relationships within that universe. I go because the writing is great, and I'm into Harry Potter theory. As it turns out, it's actually the best site for Potter theorists because the people there are unrestricted and incredibly briliant. Yet they also write Harloquen romance novels about sexual relationships within the Harry Potter Universe. Other Potter sites attrack the soccer mom crowd, and I hate em cause they're boring--they are also sterile with only slight modderation. The point is that even though the good site is heavily moderated, people feel secure enough there to just " go off" in terms of creativity and thought. Bottom line, it's all about the spirit of the board, and not what the mods do.

Jeff, I know this is a busy time, but are you or somebody going to address the issues I brought up about cataloging (new guy topics and a petition to locate a V-Bulletin programmer who can write the app for a nicer search function)? I really don't think now is the time for me to start another thread, but I don't want this one swept under the rug.

Thanks, guys!


Doesn't anyone else find this absolutely hilarious???


I think Ed's spot on in saying that we don't need to up the standards here. We seem to be doing just fine, the rare offensive post is usually recognized as such and we really do have a great group of people here. I know most of you don't know me that well, but I've been here since the board started and was a roadfly member since 2000. I'm also a longtime member of Bimmerforums.com. All are good forums. The quality of information though is the best here BY FAR.

Thanks Ed, for giving us a place to play!

[Rustam]

for the sole purpose of put an early end to the deliberately inflamatory posts that turn into thread wars.

Great idea but who gets to decide which posts are deliberately inflammtory and which are incidentally inflammatory?

Everyone has own way of seeing things (cliche, oh well), some people may imagine the thing was designed to pester others may not, and besides what if the board decides that the post was designed to pester and delete it wherein someone has actual interest in seeing the outcome?

The poll is not a joke, but I personally find it lacking essence...

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Nice wheels above ^^