Help me make a ss exhaust decision

[Gayle]

Santa is going to bring me a stainless steel exhaust because I have been such a good girl this year.:D This is a big decision and I need some input--especially on the issue of resonators.

Let's start with a ss exhaust is a stupid waste of money. I know and don't care. And because I expect to have this car a very long time, the decision won't be made on the basis of cost.

Don't really care about performance improvements. Not trying to get a few extra hp out of the system. That is not the point.

It is all about the sound. Our former 525 was a rumbler and I loved that about it. When my husband was driving it, I could hear him a block away. It was not too loud, just loud enough. It always reminded me of a Harley. My 535 sounds too civilized. I want resonance.

I have been reading old threads and links and think I have it narrowed down to a Supersprint or an Eisenmann. On the other boards, the preference does seem to be Eisenmann. And you just have to love this review Post 19 by Mobius20 (http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=234717)

I know a lot of people here have B&B (triflow) but I think it is too loud for me. Plus the Indy that will be installing it has not been happy with B&B. I understand that the Dinnan needs fabracation to connect so that is out. The Magnaflow sound didn't do it for me. The Indy is encouraging me to go Supersprint but my heart says Eisenmann. Actually the Indy thinks I am nuts for wanting what they call a "growler" instead of stock, but oh well.

Since I am still mostly clueless, I never trust that I am understanding what I read. Is this right? When people talk about cat back or straight pipe, are they talking about ommitting the resonator? I understand that the resonator makes the system more quiet. What is the resonators point? Are cars street legal without the resonator? Is there more noise in the passenger compartment without the resonator?

I have heard that the Supersprint is only slightly louder than stock. You can get both the back muffler and a resonator from Supersprint. Eisenmann doesn't do a resonator. The Indy suggests a stock resonator (and yes I need a new one).

Here is a link sound clips on a 540 without the resonator. I know that a 535 isn't going to sound like a 540, but this link is what I have to work with. I think the Supersprint with a resonator would not be loud enough for me. This clip of the Eisenmann without the resonator sounds too loud in the passenger compartment but I am thinking with the resonator, it would be just right.


sound clips of various ss exhausts on 540 without resonator (http://www.dinan540.com/MEDIA/media.html)

So your input/education regarding resonators is appreciated. My decison will be totally based on sound. Not price, not performance. I would be influenced by quality and installation problems. I want resonance--good sound quality that is medium loud outside the car but not that loud in the car. TIA

[gale]

Gee, a "Gayle" and a "Gale" in the same thread, is that allowed? ;)

As an engineer and from a generic design point of view, if the car came from the factory with a resonnator, personally I would keep one in the system. Its function is not only to reduce the harmonic noise of the "growl" but also tunes the 2nd order reflected wave which helps with exhaust scavenging, which has a primary benefit of drawing in the next intake charge if designed properly. Thru pipes (no resonnator) might perform better at the top end but they will suffer at the low end. My choice would be a stock Eberspaecher (good quality) resonnator and whatever brand SS muffler in the rear.

Once the exhaust is dumped into the inlet of the rear muffler, the event is pretty much over so just pick one that suits your sound preference. Stainless is a very good choice for not having to do it again. It's too bad A-A's are just for the 3-series, they sound sweet. Two of the CCA members in our local chapter both have e36 M3's with A-A's and they have the greatest sound. I can't make any recommendations but here is a site that compares many different brands:

http://members.aol.com/agspeed/exhaust.htm

I too would like a little more growl in my stock system. The term "cat-back" simply refers to a complete bolt-on system from the cat back. It may or may not have a resonnator, depends on the tuner. Personally, I'd like to ditch my cat. We have emissions testing every 2 years so would have to deal with swapping it out periodically but no biggie, can be done in an hour or 2 on a Saturday morning & worth the effort for another 2 years. (Now I'm going to upset all the greenies for espousing a non-environmental-friendly option) :D

[Gayle]

Gale--thank you for your informative reply. I especially appreciate the explanation of the resonator and the recommendation on a brand. I will check it out.

[willobmw]

Gayle, I may not be an Engineer, but I did sleep at a Holiday Inn. Actually, I am a Civil Engineer but I just couldn't resist. I have a Eberspaecher center section with the old Eisenmann Sport Performance Muffler which is no longer available. The "new" Sport Performance muffler used to be called High Performance. It will be a little louder but I think you will like it.
I wish I had got that version now myself, because the old version while louder than stock, is tame compared to the SS Ansa with the 4" dia. cannon that I have on my 2002.
Best of Luck,
Willobmw

[Paul in NZ]

Hmm its tricky. I know my car is a lot louder than stock but not nearly as loud as some cars.The worst thing about it is it makes MORE noise at about 2000 rpm than at higher revs..wel not quite...its esp annoying in a line of slower traffic going up hill and when you have a lot of stop n go.....keep it on the quiet side otherwise its annoying on trips and for back seat passengers.I think my car only has rear muffler mods...

[Gayle]

keep it on the quiet side otherwise its annoying on trips and for back seat passengers.I think my car only has rear muffler mods...


That is certainly food for thought. After Gale's earlier post I am convinced I need the resonator. I am hoping the Eisenmann won't be too loud with the stock resonator. Here is the decibal info from the Eisenhaus website but it is for an M3. The sport which is what I would get doesn't seem like it would be that much louder than stock, especially with the resonator. But I don't know how to relate to decibals. Is 5 decibals more a lot? I don't know.

Eisenmann Exhausts: (note: numbers may vary based on the make and model of your vehicle)
Performance Level 30-40 MPH 40-50 MPH 50-60 MPH 60-70 MPH 70-100 MPH

Stock 73 71 77 75 78
Sport 79 76 82 80 81
Racing 85 81 88 84 86

[BigKriss]

Hi Gayle, if you want a louder exhaust go with whatever manufactuer you want, however I would install a variable butterfly in the exhaust. (http://autospeed.drive.com.au/cms/A_2291/article.html) Then you have the best of both worlds, loud and quiet at your finger tips via a switch in the cabin. I eventually want this on my car. It can even open up at a certain RPM range, so it can be quiet crusing around town and then really open up at the upper RPM range. Good luck with it.

[willobmw]

I don't have the droning problem with my "Sport" version and a resonator. The 2002, that's a different story. Straight pipe no resonator.
Last Christmas, while driving it to the annual dinner at the Inlaws, A gentleman passed and gave me the thumbs up. His wife on the other hand, had both of her ears covered. Even I had to laugh.
wiilobmw

[Gayle]

Hi Gayle, if you want a louder exhaust go with whatever manufactuer you want, however I would install a variable butterfly in the exhaust. (http://autospeed.drive.com.au/cms/A_2291/article.html) Then you have the best of both worlds, loud and quiet at your finger tips via a switch in the cabin. I eventually want this on my car. It can even open up at a certain RPM range, so it can be quiet crusing around town and then really open up at the upper RPM range. Good luck with it.

Kristen
While I said I wasn't going to decide based on price, the idea of throwing in another $550 + installation on top of a system that is probably going to be $1200 plus installation is a little hard to swallow. But I do feel reassured to know it is there. Right now I am thinking I will go with the Eisenmann Sport muffler and the Eberspaecher resonnator, but if that ends up being unbearably loud, there is a solution.

Where does it go? Front end of the muffler? I saw you mention this on another thread. Why are you interested in it? Are you thinking about it for your current exhaust or are you planning on changing your exhaust?

[BigKriss]

Gayle, the butterfly goes before the rear muffler like seen in the 4th pic down. You want the exhaust louder right? Why don't you chop off the rear muffler, so you will still have the stock cat and center muffler still there, then you install the butterfly with a straight through pipe (instead of the new rear muffler). That would work out a lot cheaper than us$1200. I will eventually change my exhaust, but to be honest the quieter it is the better, I'd go with a new exhaust manifold (tubular) also. I think it's a waste of money chanign the exhaust just for a different note. If you don't take a ride in other peoples car with the exhaust you want, you might not like the change and it will be a lot of money wasted.

[Gayle]

Gayle, the butterfly goes before the rear muffler like seen in the 4th pic down. You want the exhaust louder right? Why don't you chop off the rear muffler, so you will still have the stock cat and center muffler still there, then you install the butterfly with a straight through pipe (instead of the new rear muffler). That would work out a lot cheaper than us$1200. I will eventually change my exhaust, but to be honest the quieter it is the better, I'd go with a new exhaust manifold (tubular) also. I think it's a waste of money chanign the exhaust just for a different note. If you don't take a ride in other peoples car with the exhaust you want, you might not like the change and it will be a lot of money wasted.

Yeah, I know it is stupid money. But there is a lot of stuff on my car that is stupid money like the bilsteins and the wheels and I absolutely love every single one of them. The only thing I don't like about my car is that it doesn't rumble like the 525 did. The sound is what does it for me. And the thought of a nice shiney stainless steel muffler down there instead of one that is flaking rust makes me happy.

[BigKriss]

fair enough Gayle, it's your money and your car and do whatever make you happy. I like adjustability on the car and thats why I would choose the butterfly. Jon K had some video's of his car a while ago (with a new exhaust and before the supercharger). It was loud, you should check it out.

[Gayle]

fair enough Gayle, it's your money and your car and do whatever make you happy. I like adjustability on the car and thats why I would choose the butterfly. Jon K had some video's of his car a while ago (with a new exhaust and before the supercharger). It was loud, you should check it out.

Jon K has the B&B triflow which is supposed to be the loudest of the options. And he had the M5 version on a 525. I have already conceded that B&B would be too loud for me but thanks for looking out for me. :)

[darron525]

hi Gayle,

I have 93 525 with a ss muffler. While the growl was ok under throttle, the sound was not as loud as my stock mufler so I took my stock resonator off and put straight pipes. The sound was a nice deep rumble at idle and I was happy until about 2 weeks later. I don't know if it was the break in period or what but me and the wife were going to lunch one day and all of a sudden I had this loud growl (dronning) comming from outside and she said that the honda on the side if us needed to do something about his car and I said uhh thats not his car :( . Now im trying to decide if I want to order the ss resonator or a new stock one since my old was 13 yrs old I did not keep it.
To sum it up I wish I would have went with the eisenmann and may even end up selling it and getting the eisenmann.

darron

[Gayle]

hi Gayle,

I have 93 525 with a ss muffler. While the growl was ok under throttle, the sound was not as loud as my stock mufler so I took my stock resonator off and put straight pipes. The sound was a nice deep rumble at idle and I was happy until about 2 weeks later. I don't know if it was the break in period or what but me and the wife were going to lunch one day and all of a sudden I had this loud growl (dronning) comming from outside and she said that the honda on the side if us needed to do something about his car and I said uhh thats not his car :( . Now im trying to decide if I want to order the ss resonator or a new stock one since my old was 13 yrs old I did not keep it.
To sum it up I wish I would have went with the eisenmann and may even end up selling it and getting the eisenmann.

darron


I had read that there was a break in period but hearing about your experience makes it real for me. I am really glad to know that. Thanks for sharing your experience.


Nice looking car. Nice wheels ;)

.

[Zeuk in Oz]

a ss exhaust is a stupid waste of money
A point of clarification please Gayle.

Is your (presumably stock) exhaust not Stainless Steel ?

I would suggest that stainless is never a waste of money but, living on the coast as I believe you do, it might also make sense to enquire about the grade or quality of stainless steel used by the various manufacturers.

This, unfortunately, can vary greatly and might make a big difference to the longevity of the system.

[Booster]

Thats true about the grade or alloy content in various Stainless blends.304-304L-316L ?Or low nickle content.
I bought a West coast USED AC Schnitzer { made by Bosal or one of the German makes ?)full exhaust that was from a E34 and was about 13 years old.
It looks NEW and held up great. I plan on putting it on my 5 with the turbo system in place.
Its a BEEFY box for sure....so I'll have to do some loose sound mock up tests to get the TONE just right by adding/deleting the other mufflers along the system.
I would expect lesser systems to corrode on the surface abit if they are questionable brands.

[genphreak]

fair enough Gayle, it's your money and your car and do whatever make you happy. I like adjustability on the car and thats why I would choose the butterfly. Jon K had some video's of his car a while ago (with a new exhaust and before the supercharger). It was loud, you should check it out.Hey, Nissan Skyline GTS's (basic Skyline) with the standard 2.5L straight 6 (RB25 engine-very nice motor) have a butterfly (waste gate) standard at the rear. It makes the muffler work with one outlet until you gun the car and then it allows the second pipe to work, giving a **much** meatier sound.

I am sure this could be a mod we should look at. The Nissan is a SS system all the way through, so second hand parts would not be the junk (from our era's) BMW exhaust ones are and the cost much less than new custom stuff as all the Jap perf boys cut these off in favour of polished performance bazzookas that are invariably torn off at the first speed hump they go over. It might well be worth going to see a stock cat-back setup from one just to check out the wate gate it employs.

I haven't looked into it other than being impressed by what I saw on a mate's R33 Skyline, so perhaps you'd like to make some enquiries Gayle?

BTW; Re resonators, a 525 can get away with it without (or may typically not have) whereas 535 **never** can. I have a non-stock generic style resonator (all SS) and its of less value than a cowpat under your foot- underlying my next point-

Someone (there are not many around) makes a SS resonator though and I would suggest one of those and whatever rear muffler meets your preference. If you have no real-world examples of a 535 with such a system, call the manufacturer's receptionist on a Tuesday/Wed morning and ask who in the company might have seen/know of one. The first thing to know is what does the resonator look like (is it as long as the stock one and thus properly catch the M30's drone) in which case it has to be bent 'like a banana'. I'd also suggest shiny SS pipes to make it all match up properly and prevent the fitter getting away with using bad welding-wire and technique- be sure to make them understand you want it nicely finished. In stock form the pipes to the cat are 2" and then from the cat-back they are 1.5" or 1 3/4". Beware if you change this to 2" all they way the resonator position may need to change (or may not...). if it does the best place may go further back to avoid the deadly harmonics- and doing so is not possible as the pipes feed round the rear suspension directly after the stock muffler. You really want advice from your chosen resonator manufacturer who should know all about it if you can get to the person that developed the resonator they make for the 535. I wouldn't fit anything until you can get such informed advice on the plans you have.

Of course they might say you should match their resonator to the muffler- and they may well be right there. However if you had a wastegate from an RB25 exhaust you might well be able to take advantage of both worlds. (I've no idea if the Nissan wastegate would fit (for all I know it is inside the muffler), but there may be a way to graft it fror $100 instead of $600 and this may provide the sound you crave without the pains everyone else has had. Best of luck- and don't forget to post pics! Nick

No doubt throughout your research you have been made aware Gayle, there are a lot of people out there doing parts from SE Asian companies like these (http://www.speedexhaust.com/), not all are bad but none have any idea about E34s... so local fabrictors that make the resonators are the only choice really. I just hope the wastegate could be a good idea... (Thankx Kriss) :) Nick

[Gayle]

Bo--my current muffler and resonator are rusty and flaking from their former life on the east coast even though she was a garage princess. The rest of the underneath is really good. I want stainless for the sound. It is all about the sound. In CA, what I put on should last an eternity since it never snows in San Diego.

Vinny--The indys who will be installing it made the point that not all stainless is the same. What do those numbers mean? Which are good?

Nick--I am probably going with the stock resonator after what I have learned in this thread. I appreciate the reinforcement that a 535 can't go without a resonator. I also appreciate the info about the 2" and 1.5" or 1.75". I figure you can never have too much information to make sure something stupid doesn't happen. The indy was in favor of supersprint and I am probably going with the eisenmann so I need to watch my own back. Thanks for the help.

[Booster]

Bo--my current muffler and resonator are rusty and flaking from their former life on the east coast even though she was a garage princess. The rest of the underneath is really good. I want stainless for the sound. It is all about the sound. In CA, what I put on should last an eternity since it never snows in San Diego.

Vinny--The indys who will be installing it made the point that not all stainless is the same. What do those numbers mean? Which are good?


The numbers are simply alloy content of each grade. Usually ...the higher the number, the higher the Nickle content . For the most part anyway.The "L" refers to less or more of lead or alloy..........I actually have spaced off the spec knowledge there.;)
Since your zone of weather isn't as nasty as some of see....this is less of a concern for you really.
If your motor isn't BUILT for bigger HP.......I wouldn't concern myself with the wastegate/flap add on either. Rather ..focus on the size of tube to use and then the rest needs to simply have the proper sized flanges to connect and of course the opening size of the muffler choice.
A nice CUSTOM fitted system can be hand pieced together quite affordably if your not rushed too bad.
Then you could slip fit everything together to listen drive and decide on how many mufflers are going to please your ears.
...............Vinny:D

[genphreak]

Bo--my current muffler and resonator are rusty and flaking from their former life on the east coast even though she was a garage princess. The rest of the underneath is really good. I want stainless for the sound. It is all about the sound. In CA, what I put on should last an eternity since it never snows in San Diego.

Vinny--The indys who will be installing it made the point that not all stainless is the same. What do those numbers mean? Which are good?

Nick--I am probably going with the stock resonator after what I have learned in this thread. I appreciate the reinforcement that a 535 can't go without a resonator. I also appreciate the info about the 2" and 1.5" or 1.75". I figure you can never have too much information to make sure something stupid doesn't happen. The indy was in favor of supersprint and I am probably going with the eisenmann so I need to watch my own back. Thanks for the help.SOunds like a good course of action but I love the wastegate idea- I think it helps with low-end torque too. It is standard on that stock non-turbo Nissan so it can't be a bad idea. However I can't help thinking I saw a full banana-bent (OE style) full SS resonator somewhere recently... the SuperSprint is just like the generic unit my Indy stupidly put on my car which is the only reason I don't like it. If you do go this way, call SuperSprint directly to be sure they don't have a new design or a version with SS case (I am sure they can make it). The banana type one I saw was awesome... just can't think where it was... :(
Sorry!

[Gayle]

However I can't help thinking I saw a full banana-bent (OE style) full SS resonator somewhere recently... the SuperSprint is just like the generic unit my Indy stupidly put on my car which is the only reason I don't like it. If you do go this way, call SuperSprint directly to be sure they don't have a new design or a version with SS case (I am sure they can make it). The banana type one I saw was awesome... just can't think where it was... :(
Sorry!

Here is the supersprint resonator and muffler. Is this what you were talking about? The reason I am leaning toward the eisenmann is the supersprint is only slightly louder than stock and I am after the sound.

http://www.bmpdesign.com/category-exec/category_id/100/search_year/1990/search_model/26


And here is the eisenmann in case you want to see.

http://www.eisenhaus.com/ehprice.php?selMake=2&selModel=2150&selSub=103&selPerf=2&selTip=285%230.99%232round.gif&Type0Page=0#pictures

[genphreak]

Here is the supersprint resonator and muffler. Is this what you were talking about? Yes those are the ones I know. The Supersprint one is the one I suspect might be available with the more exotic resonator. The resonator Eisenmann have looks basic like the Supersprint but is probably full Stainless. The Supersprint only states it's has a Stainless interior... :( Then again, this special one I've seen might not be supersprint or eisenmann, perhaps its eberspacher or something.... sorry I can't be of more use.

BTW- To anyone that's interested- I spoke ot my friend with the Skyline and it's wastegate is mounted inside the factory Stainless muffler. It works on engine speed, only opening the second tailpipe when flowrate requires it. I'm going to see if this can be incorporated on the E34 somehow, for 3reasons:

1) I suspect the E34 requires some back pressure to maximise scavenging efficiency of the stock manifold
2) Cos it's a pretty sweet way to avoid the cops harraunging you at the lights ;)
3) The car roars at WOT and is streetable at other times. :D My preference- but perhaps not Gayle's!

Hey Gayle, perhaps you should go see the peeps at SuperSPrint or Eisenhaus and let us know what they say? :) Nick

[Jon K]

i vote big old loud B&B triflo. no isseus with build quality - top notch. sure to wake your neighbors up.

[Anthony (M5 in Calgary)]

I installed a SuperSprint on the M5 this summer. It is quite a bit louder than stock, especially at idle. High RPM yields one hell of a shriek. All in all, very pleased with the results.

Make sure you keep a resonator in there. In this case, the resonator is straight through, just like the rear muffler.

Old and new:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/interalian/M5%20repair%202005/112-1201_IMG.jpg