High Beams and Fogs not working....

[rockyfeller]

I've got a set of HID wired in as low-beams and there have been no problems until now. Now the high-beams are not working. The blue high beam indicator comes on the dash but the lights don't come on. The fog-lights won't turn on with the low beams. The only thing working are the low-beam headlights (HID) along with all the acessory parking lamps. All fuses are intact, the high-beam bulbs are fine, they aren't blown. The fog-light bulbs are new and intact. I have no "high-beam" or "fog-light" bulb out warning on the dash either. Is this an issue with the LKM? How could I test it myself? If it were LKM wouldn't it warn me through the OBC somehow? I hate electrical problems! Help!

[uscharalph]

Has this problem just started or has it always been this way. The easiest way to check it out would be to swap out with a known good LKM. When my LKM needed work the CCM didn't warn me because the bulb was OK (I think). I'm so glad my brother's pretty good with a soldering iron.

[632 Regal]

with HID if you have a short or something you will probably fry a new LKM too.

[rockyfeller]

No never had this problem before, it just happened now....So if I get another LKM I could fry that too eh? Thaaat's great. What the freak do I do now?

[rockyfeller]

Javier or Tiger, any suggestions? What sucks is I just bought that resistor relay from you Tiger and it dosen't make sense to install it till I find out the problem with the headlights first. Great timing huh?

[Javier]

High Beams:

If fuses are OK, all, F2, F3, F13 and F14, your car is US (non Canadian) version, and the Blue pilot light turns on in the dash for both, flash and steady High beams. Yes I guess you have an LKM issue (an alternative is Crash Control, but let keep it for last resource). For info, high beams are not LKM monitored.

Follow these instructions:

Find some wire an prepare a fused jumper (a fuse with two long pieces of wire at each side). Connect with the jumper, power from the positive post in the engine compartment to the fuse F13 (Left High Beam should turn on). Do same to fuse F14 for right High Beam. If both lights work fine, remove both F13 and F14 fuses and have a friend to cycle on-off repeatedly the high beams (flasher will help). Feel the very weak click inside the LKM, this will confirm LKM relay is working. If relay is OK, no doubt crash control module has nothing to do with the problem and you need to re-solder the path of the LKM between Pin 2 and Pin 20 going trough High Beam relay main contact. See LKM connector picture below (in the link if not displayed).

http://www.bimmer.info/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=886&stc=1

If no clicking, try the following. Replace fuses F13 and F14. Identify and remove crash control module, and fuse-jump with your new tool the pin 3 to pin 9 in its socket (see socket picture attached). Try High beams again, if working, Crash control module should be debugged, replaced or fixed.

If with Crash control bypassed (jumper from 3 to 9) lights don't work and no clicking in the LKM, remove LKM and test voltage at pin 1, it rise to 12Vdc when you turn on high beams, if not, high beam lever switch or lights switch or even fuse F3 or F2 socket are the things to check, but there should be no blue pilot. If do rise and no clicking, yes LKM problem and not as easy as to re-solder.



Fog Lights:

If fuses are OK, both F7 and F3, and you don't have pilot light indication for fog lights in the dash.

Follow these instructions:

Remove F7 fuse and have a friend to cycle on-off repeatedly the fog lights (if US you need high beams off). Feel the very weak click inside the LKM, this will confirm LKM relay is working. If relay is OK, you need to re-solder the path of the LKM between Pin 17 and Pin 15 and between Pin 17 and Pin 32, going trough fog lights relay main contacts and monitoring resistors. The problem should be before the resistors as if power reaches them and no lights on, you would have the gong.

If you feel no clicking, remove LKM and test voltage at pin 18, it rise to 12Vdc when you turn on fog lights, if not, fog lights switch or lights switch or even fuse F3 socket are the things to check. If do rise and no clicking, yes LKM problem and not as easy as to re-solder.

I feel that if fuses never blow out, there should be no fear to switch the LKM with a donor.

I have no idea what s involved with HID. I'm assuming the original wiring is intact until after the LKM.

Best luck,
Javier

[rockyfeller]

JAVIER you are THE MAN! I dub you the E34 electrical genius! How do you know all this stuff?? I knew you'd be the right person to ask. I'm going to try this tomorrow morning. Yes my car is the US version not Canadian. As I said, the fuses look fine, but I am going to try that fused jumper method anyways. That click you speak is an obvious sign of a relay at work so that should make sense. As for the "crash module", sorry for my ignorance but where is it located? Am I right to say the brown relay to the right of the CCM? Also how do I test the voltage at the pins when the module is plugged in? The module is plugged in so deep. Or am I to open the LKM? (Hope that question isn't too stupid). As for my HIDs, I don't consider them a factor at all. The wiring is straightforward and sound. I would have suspected them had the low beams been the culprit, but this is exactly the oppisite case. What is interesting here is how the high-beams AND fog-lights have both stopped functioning simultaneuosly which lead me to suspect the LKM. As a side note, the blue high beam pilot comes on but not the green fog-light pilot...Weird. Thanks so much for your efforts in explaining all this to me!! Hopefully I'll come to the bottom of this.

[Javier]

the fuses look fine, but I am going to try that fused jumper method anyways

The reason to have the fuse in the jumper is that depending on the side of the fuses F13 and F14 you connect, you may have lights connected without protecting fuse, so if there is a short, it will prevent the associated fireworks (doubt you have a short, but better to prevent).

As for the "crash module", sorry for my ignorance but where is it located?

at the right side of CCM (towards firewall), in the corner formed between CCM and LKM.

Also how do I test the voltage at the pins when the module is plugged in?

My mistake. I did not emphasize to test the voltage at the pin in the socket where LKM plugs in. Note that every time I asked you to test an LKM pin voltage I've asked first to remove the LKM. The idea is to test the signal arriving to the LKM socket, so don't need the LKM plugged in.

What is interesting here is how the high-beams AND fog-lights have both stopped functioning simultaneuosly which lead me to suspect the LKM.

The only common and evident relation is fuse F3 (Flash and fogs, as F2 is permanent Highs). Also you should have an interlocking circuit to block fogs under high beams. You said fuses are OK and I doubt control electronics is bad, so guess it is pure casualty. If it were low beams, power enters LKM trough Pin 2 for both, lows and fogs, but Highs are independent (power lines talking)

As a side note, the blue high beam pilot comes on but not the green fog-light pilot...Weird.

The Blue pilot is light up with the signal going to the LKM to turn on High Beams, for me, it means switches are generating the request, as it reaches the blue pilot. Signal, though, may be interrupted in crash control, or wiring to LKM (this is the reason to test LKM pin voltage as a last resource).

The green pilot is connected in parallel to the right fog lamp. If lamp doesn't get power, pilot won't light up.

Javier

[rockyfeller]

Again Javier, pure genius, THANKS! I'm testing my car now....I really do wish I had another E34 to do an LKM swap.

[rockyfeller]

Javier, followed your instructions and there is a click in the LKM when the high beam is switched but no lights. There is NO click when the fog-lights are switched though. Jumper fuse did nothing. I opened the LKM to examine (not like I know about much that's going on in there). The LKM looked absolutely pristine, like brand new. It didn't look like anything burned out or solder points were disrupted. I decided to remelt the solder at certain points anyways to see if that could cure. The crash module is fine no problems there. I didn't check voltage as I don't have a voltmeter and need to buy one. So I think I'm going to buy an LKM hoping to solve the problem, but you know my guts says it still may not work for some reason. Let's just hope...Any other ideas??

[Paul in NZ]

you say fuses are intact,you cant always tell,try switching them anyways....

[rockyfeller]

Yeah I thought of that couple hrs ago.....but then again, I used the fused jumper method suggested by Javier which didn't work. That would rule out a fuse problem.

[Paul in NZ]

yes i was hoping that f2 was the culprit.....

[rockyfeller]

Only an LKM swap is going to give me a definitive answer.

[Javier]

one point of the jumper to the + Battery post (in the engine area) and the other to the fuses I pointed you, and lights did not go on, the problem is AFTER the LKM and not in it or before it. Bad bulbs, bad fuse sockets, bad wiring. Don't loose any more time debugging the LKM until you get lamps on when you bring power from battery post to fuses F13 and F14.

For the fogs, were you sure your High Beam switch was Off when trying to turn on fogs and feel the click? Not having the lamps on doesn't mean the LKM know they are off.

Javier

[rockyfeller]

Hey Javier, got a hold of a mulimeter.....Guess what? It may not be the LKM after all. I was getting 3-4Volts at pins 1 and 18....There must be a problem with the wiring. With a minimal voltage like that, sounds like some kind of grounding problem? What do you think?

[Javier]

to Ground????

If you got clicking at High beams request, pin 1 should rise properly to 12 Vdc Check how are you getting those readings.

Again, when you jump from Battery post (12 volts by sure) to fuse F13 or fuse F14, High beams should go on, if not, either the fuse or the fuse socket is bad, the wiring to the high beam lamps is bad or bulbs are gone. This is the first thing you should clarify.

Javier

[rockyfeller]

Yep got 3-4 V from pin 1 and 18. I didn't have time to test more than 5 minutes on Saturday and was in a rush to go out; Maybe one of the knobs ont multimeter was set wrong. I did test elsewhere to get a 12V reading to make sure it was working. When I jumped to F13/F14 I got nothing. I am sure it is the wiring. The bulbs are the very 1st thing I had checked and they were fine and the CCM would have detected that anyways. One question though....What is the route of wiring from battery to the bulb. Does it go from battery > fusebox > LKM > headlight bulb? Any other connections or relays I should know about and be testing along the way?

[Javier]

from X2 (unfused battery feed at front fuse box) to LKM pin 2, from LKM pin 2 to high beam relay power contact inside LKM, from high beam relay power contact inside LKM to LKM pin 20, from LKM pin 20 to fuses F13 and F14, from fuses F13 and F14 to high beam lamps left and right respectively, from high beam lamps to ground. Note fuses are after LKM and not before it.

Note that if you take power to F13 and F14 with a jumper, corresponding lamps should turn on, no matter LKM status. LKM does not monitor High Beams so CCM will not report them wrong.

Javier

[rockyfeller]

Right, after all this discussion I figured the fuses proceeded the LKM but I just didn't want to assume. Well I marvel again how you know this stuff so well (I'm wondering if in fact you aren't human but are in fact a computer :) Your advice has been worth it's weight in gold. Thanks again for taking the time to answer my 100 questions. I'll let you know in a few days what the cause is. I am so much more confident of finding a cause (My indy woulda probably charged me 2hrs labor for this!)

[Paul in NZ]

how do you know which side of the fuse contact to go to?near the lkm or the other side?If there is continuity from headlight back to fuse(pull the fuse first multimeters dont like 12v dc when in resistance mode!) that wiring is ok

[Javier]

high beams are off. Also, no mater what point on the fuse you contact with power, lights should go on as long as fuse is OK.

If bringing power to those fuses with a jumper do not light up high beams, then I would check carefully the fuse socket (May be it is overheated and corroded), the wire from fuse to lamp, the lamp and lamp socket, and finally the lead from lamp socket to ground, for checking wires continuity, if ohm checking with a meter, yes it would be wise to remove the fuse and the lamp, so to isolate the feeding wire to test, and then, also test the grounding wire.

Javier

[Paul in NZ]

i see...... i imagined the fuse would be removed!

[Javier]

I just can not believe both sides lamp circuits went wrong simultaneously, as from the fuses on, they are completely separated circuits.

Think we are missing something, or the power jumping to the fuses is not done properly.

The problem is that I don't feel right to go on until this is clarified.

Javier

[rockyfeller]

One thing makes me not so surprised....Last year I hit a deer. It was at dusk and I had my parking/fogs on, not my headlights. On impact everything naturally burst, got smashed and my fuses blew. When I was reassembling everything I noticed that the power to certain bulbs wouldn't be given unless there was a bulb in every socket. Like chrismas tree lights or something. The fogs wouldn't come on until I had 2 working low beams. With one bulb out none of the lights worked (all4 out)...why is that? Some parallel wiring I imagine. At that time I thought my LKM was fried or something due to a short-circuit or something from the accident. Then with new bulbs, everything worked. A-OK. It is intricate the way all this is wired up.

[Javier]

Javier

[rockyfeller]

Thanks for the diagram Javier! Only problem is I'm sure you can understand it, but it looks like Swahili to me. WOW got a headache....well I got a better idea from it. Got a multimeter and I'm checkin the car out now.

[rockyfeller]

SOLVED the problem! So my gut feeling was right.....Low down near the bumper my ground wire for the left high beam was cut....I guess it was frayed in last year's accident and broke loose. I tested here and there with my multimeter and traced it. Can you believe I splice the 2 wires together and voila......everything works as before! No problems! As said this problem kinda mimicked the behavior of my lights when everything was smashed after my accident. Even with fuses replaced, all bulbs and wires had to be intact for my fogs to turn on as well.

Well Javier after 3 wks my irritating problem is finally solved and thanks to you I didn't waste my $$ on an LKM....Once again I realize my great fortune of finding smart people like you via this forum. Thanks!

[Javier]

Javier