Oil Leak help

[PatrickPGH]

Would coolant be present in the oil if the head gasket on an M60 is leaking? I have a rather large oil leak that I can't track down. I eliminated the headgasket because there is NO coolant in the oil, but I want to make sure.

Thanks!

Patrick

[Messerschmitt]

Is the oil flowing on to the intake valley pan and out of the trans. bell housing? If so i have the same leak and cannot find the cause. I have found and solved several other leaks.

If the oil appears to be coming from the front of the engine and leaking down onto the engine mounts, it's probably the upper tining chain cover gaskets. These are really cheap gaskets but it will take all day to replace both of them. They are a common source of leaks.

The gasket on the oil pan was originally made of cork and would shrink and leak, the new rubber gasket is an easy install and fixes the problem.

Supposedly the oil return line from the intake manifold can leak onto the valley pan. I've never proven this, but I have replaced both O-rings while I had the intake off for new gaskets. Nothing gained there.

Let me know what yours looks like...

Messerschmitt

[PatrickPGH]

I think we do have the same leaks. I added some comments but more questions below. Thanks in advance for any help.

Is the oil flowing on to the intake valley pan and out of the trans. bell housing? If so i have the same leak and cannot find the cause. I have found and solved several other leaks.

I definitely have oil leaking out of the junction between engine and transmission bell housing. Is there a rear seal that leaks on these cars? That was a problem on the B230 4 cylinder Volvo engines I worked on before this car.

If the oil appears to be coming from the front of the engine and leaking down onto the engine mounts, it's probably the upper tining chain cover gaskets. These are really cheap gaskets but it will take all day to replace both of them. They are a common source of leaks.

I removed the airbox and was able to get a better view of the front of the engine. I can see that the oil is leaking from the passenger side somewhere between the valve cover and the alternator. That leaves a lot of acreage. The ETK appears to be downight now, do you know what the belt driven part is above the alternator?

Is it necessary to remove the radiator when changing these gaskets? Is this something a moderately confident DIY wrench can do?

The gasket on the oil pan was originally made of cork and would shrink and leak, the new rubber gasket is an easy install and fixes the problem.

I replaced the gasket last week when I changed the oil, unknown history on the oil pump, and during today's investigation I noticed that several of the bolts were loose. Do you know what the torque specs are on the oil pan bolts? Oil pump was secure btw.

Supposedly the oil return line from the intake manifold can leak onto the valley pan. I've never proven this, but I have replaced both O-rings while I had the intake off for new gaskets. Nothing gained there.

Let me know what yours looks like...

Messerschmitt

Again thanks for the reply and any more answers!

[Messerschmitt]

Oil pan to engine block torque: 10Nm (89 in-lb)

The oil coming from the bell housing is probably coming from above. Fluids that collect in the valley pan drain down through the bell housing via two drain holes at the rear of the engine block (under the coolant pipes). The leak may be on top of the engine.

Sounds like your timing chain cover gaskets are leaking, there really is nothing else on the front of the block that will leak like that. They can be replaced by you however you will need a whole day and a good set of tools. Removing the left side involves removing the alternator to get the oil canister off. You will need new gaskets for the valve covers as well while your in there. I didn't remove the radiator when doing these gaskets, however I think I removed the water pump. This would be a good time to replace that too.

Meserschmitt

[PatrickPGH]

Argghhh. Why couldn't I find this at the beginning of summer. I have a bad feeling Pittsburgh's used up its quota of great weekends.

Anyway, do you know if this is detailed in the Bentley manual? If this gets as involved as I think it will become I may just keep adding Mobil 1 to the beast.

Can someone offer a definitive answer how to judge the oil level? And don't be a smart-ass and say drain and measure. After first wiping the dip-stick is it pushed back down passed the two o-rings and then pulled out and read? Or does the dip-stick get pushed back to the first o ring and then read?

I ask because the difference between the first and second method are just the right amount of oil and very, very low.

Thanks.

Patrick

Sounds like your timing chain cover gaskets are leaking, there really is nothing else on the front of the block that will leak like that. They can be replaced by you however you will need a whole day and a good set of tools. Removing the left side involves removing the alternator to get the oil canister off. You will need new gaskets for the valve covers as well while your in there. I didn't remove the radiator when doing these gaskets, however I think I removed the water pump. This would be a good time to replace that too.

Meserschmitt

[632 Regal]

Argghhh. Why couldn't I find this at the beginning of summer. I have a bad feeling Pittsburgh's used up its quota of great weekends.

Anyway, do you know if this is detailed in the Bentley manual? If this gets as involved as I think it will become I may just keep adding Mobil 1 to the beast.

Can someone offer a definitive answer how to judge the oil level? And don't be a smart-ass and say drain and measure. After first wiping the dip-stick is it pushed back down passed the two o-rings and then pulled out and read? Or does the dip-stick get pushed back to the first o ring and then read?

I ask because the difference between the first and second method are just the right amount of oil and very, very low.

Thanks.

Patrick

[Messerschmitt]

Documents are in BMW TIS 1114080 and 1114085. They describe the torque sequence of each upper timing chain cover to prevent the problem that we have had. However, I have removed the covers and used super Copper silicone instead of a gasket and had excellent results. If you are a purist the gaskets are very cheap ~$8.00 from BMA parts #11 14 1 433 305 and 11 14 1 433 306

Let me know if you need more info...


Messerschmitt

[black_bird_blue]

Oh, joy, joy and thrice joy!

I believe I have the same leak. At last! A diagnosis! I didn't know how much I wanted to know where it was coming from until I knew. And now I know, I know. I deeply, desparately, disconsolately wanted to know where all that bloody oil under the car was coming from! I'd got as far as "somewhere high near the oil filter housing" but drawn a blank despite repeatedly staring up.

A quick steam clean followed by some gynacology with a torch and mirror should confirm matters.

Huzzah!




Sorry, was that too much?

Damian

[Messerschmitt]

Interesting description...

You should find that both upper-timing-chain covers are leaking. The fix really isn't that bad, it's just very time consuming. Be sure to have a very complete 1/4 drive socket set and a 10mm socket.

HINT: When removing the flywheel you can lock the engine be placing a socket in the mounting for the crankshaft position sensor. This will be enough to allow you to get the bolts loose. You will see what I mean when you get to that point.

Messerschmitt