Reply With QuoteOriginally Posted by Jeff N.
...my buddy wonders out loud if all these hurricane's in Florida isn't God's way of warning the state not to mess with the presidential elections this year.
Hmmm....interesting thought, no?
Grand Master
So at lunch the other day....
...my buddy wonders out loud if all these hurricane's in Florida isn't God's way of warning the state not to mess with the presidential elections this year.
Hmmm....interesting thought, no?
Bellevue WA
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Super Moderator
or some of that nonexistant global warming thats not happening according to George.
...my buddy wonders out loud if all these hurricane's in Florida isn't God's way of warning the state not to mess with the presidential elections this year.
Hmmm....interesting thought, no?
3 Grand Master
...my buddy wonders out loud if all these hurricane's in Florida isn't God's way of warning the state not to mess with the presidential elections this year.
Hmmm....interesting thought, no?
um, the floridians already discussed this about a week ago, no need to hold your tongue....take a gander at the cartoon, here
http://www.alligator.org/edit/opinio...2/opinion.html
Grand Master
lol Bill...you putting words in my mouth? You won't find a single statement of mine to that end. I have studied both sides as eminent scientists are divided on global warming. With a background in thermodynamics and a scientific bend, I think there is an argument in favor of global warming but contribution so far due to the polution we have contributed is likely infinitesimally small and therefore not a factor....but perhaps a small contribution. Hurricane occurrence can easily be explained away as statistical noise...probably somewhere in between this position and the doomsday forecast. Oh and BTW...hybrid cars are tokenistic to the problem....what we should do is make smaller displacement IC engine cars with better emission controls...we don't need 270hp Hybrid SUV P.O.S from any mfr. As to voting in the next election....since school kids are fair game...unbelieveable....and today in Austraulia...their embassy was bombed...further Al Qaeda linkage....I know who I want at the controls. The counterpoint to this argument just isn't valid...its not our polices that have created disfavor....take inventory of what is happening to other countries....Europe is next.
Ironically, terrorism may end up galvanizing not separating the world.
Would love to chat further but have to run :-)
George
Super Moderator
Sorry George, I was referring to another George, as in W....
Green Beret Special Ops
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95 E34 530I V2.37
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Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable.
John F. Kennedy
Moderator
You say tomato
Plenty of disagreement regarding politics will surface in these pages over the next seven weeks, and perhaps this thread will soon be moved to OT. . .
but are you saying that with a straight face like Cheney said in a recent campaign speech that we had we stopped Iran's nuke program--on the same day they publicly announced that they had achieved weapons-grade plutonium?
Our policies have incited great hatred among our friends--our enemies needed little incentive. The "galvanized" world will obviously not include the US as long as the current administration is in power. Was there ever a less convincing testament to the foreign policy acumen of a "world leader" than the phrase "coalition of the willing"?
Proof is in the pudding. Stakes are high. And the best man certainly may not win.
But let's all remember that our love of cars is what brings us together.
p.s. George, Bill, anyone--with regard to global warming, have you considered the role of the North Atlantic Current? Below is a quote I found in a quick search that summarizes the potential situation:
Research suggests that this circulation process [the North Atlantic Current] may have fluctuated or even stopped many times in Earth's distant past, and that it is sensitive to moderate increases in temperature or influxes of fresh water. The cold, salty water that sinks in the far North Atlantic Ocean will not sink if it becomes a little bit warmer or a little bit less salty - and the change could happen in a matter of decades.
"This system does not respond in what we call a linear manner,"
"Once you start putting on the brakes, this circulation pattern could slow down faster and faster and eventually stop altogether."
The paradox, the scientists say, is that the same greenhouse effect that might make the Earth warmer, overall, could have the opposite effect on much of Europe by slowing or shutting down the warm ocean circulation patterns on which it depends.
"Most, but not all, coupled general circulation model projections of the 21st century climate show a reduction in the strength of the Atlantic overturning circulation with increasing concentrations of greenhouse gases," the researchers write in their report in "Nature." "If the warming is strong enough and sustained long enough, a complete collapse cannot be excluded."
Very interesting related thread
Big, Big Time Poster
The Atlantic Conveyor...
Probably the biggest thing that no one is talking about - that global warming is happening, and will likely lead to a MASSIVE temperature drop across the developed portions of Northern Hemisphere. Of course, it is also Mom Nature's way of applying the brakes to our propensity to create a warming planet. When Mom Nature puts on the brakes, it's going to hurt.
This is actually something that's getting a bit of play inside the Pentagon. This report was the most interesting bit I've found to date on the topic. It shows that whatever the current executive branch seems to say (and maybe even think) about the topic, there are minds in the military looking ahead to the day.....
"An Abrupt Climate Change Scenario and Its Implications for United States National Security"
Very comforting. (please note the dripping sarcasm)
--Micah O'C
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Super Moderator
But in answer to your statements, the global warming theory is
hardly divided its more like 98 to 2 with only a very small number of handpicked scientists favoring Bush's position on it and even that is now going away as seen here
As far as the hybrids go , better get used to them since they appear to be here to stay. Toyota has announced that they will offer a hybrid version of every model they make in the next five years and others will follow suit.
I aggree that a 270 hp suv hybrid is not needed but thats the only way your going to wean the big block suburban driving soccer moms and real men over to something more efficient. Its going to have to be a gradual process and we started down this path back after the first fuel crisis. You're starting to see higher voltage systems on cars already which is going to make the switch to hybrid cheaper and cheaper, The electric power steering systems and hermetic air conditioners are also following the same lines.
Even more gains for the hybrids are seen in the large commercial vehicles as seen here
Didn't we have this discussion about a year and a half ago when you said the hybrids would never catch on
Grand Master
98 to 2?...huh?
First economics: "The Cambridge University Press has just published the findings of a group of 26 economists,headed by a Yale University resource expert, who studied what would happen to human activities rangingfrom agriculture to recreation to water use if the earth warmed substantially in the next century. Contrary to media spin, the economic consequences would be on the whole positive, not negative. Agriculture and forests would particularly benefit because of the fertilizing effect of rising atmospheric carbon dioxide (CO2), a greenhouse gas but also plants' basic food source. GDP would increase substantially in a warmer world, as would personal income and standards of living.
Then physics: Scientific dissent does exist, and on at least two levels. First, whether human actions are causing a significant warming. Second, whether there is any warming trend at all.
We have to look at historic climate records. Since the end of the last ice age, about 11,000 years ago, glaciers covering Canada and the northern United States have retreated, leaving behind the Great Lakes. But the climate has not been steady since then. Even before written records and thermometers, information in ocean and lake sediments, in Greenland and Antarctic ice cores, and from the width of tree rings indicates large temperature changes.
Since the Second World War, growing populations and increasing industrial activity have put billions of tons of CO2 in the atmosphere, mainly from the burning of fossil fuels. CO2 is a greenhouse gas, yet the climate cooled significantly between 1940 and 1975. The Earth had another sudden warming between 1975 and 1980, but from then on, the story becomes complicated. Surface thermometers show a continued small warming trend up to the present, while satellites, as well as balloon-borne radiosondes, do not. A good hypothesis is that local warming in urban areas has contaminated surface data, affecting many weather stations but not the globe as a whole.
Recently, direct temperature measurements (with thermometers) on an ice core from Greenland have confirmed this picture. Writing in the renowned journal Science, researchers state explicitly that the "temperature cools between 1940 and 1995." This clearly contradicts the results of climate models, which all predict that the warming at high latitudes should greatly exceed the global average.
What about the human influence on climate change? Urban heat has assuredly affected local temperatures. But has a nearly 50% increase in the overall greenhouse-gas level since about 1850 caused a global warming? It's certainly plausible and expected from theory, but so far, natural climate variability appears to dominate over any human effect."
Surprised nobody has mentioned the most precipitous climatic event in our world's history...long before man existed....when the dinosaur ruled the earth. Their extinction is surmised to be due to a defining temperature swing resulting from a large asteroid colliding with the earth....lol.
George
And Greg...the right man will win...hehe...good discussion guys.
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