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Thread: cheaper version fuel tank breather valve

  1. #1
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    Default cheaper version fuel tank breather valve

    Fuel Tank Breather Valve 13901711395 is used on E24 635CSi, E30: 318i M42, 318is M42, 325i M20, 325is M20, 325ix M20, E31: 840Ci M60, 850Ci M70, 850CSi S70, E32: 735i/L M30, 740i/L M60,750i/L M70, E34: 530i/540 M60, E38:740i/L.

    The price is extremely expensive with MSRP $452.84 , a bit cheaper when you by it from the open market as Bosch part, BMW 13901711395 is Bosch Nr. 0 280 142 150 .
    But there is an alternative:
    The valve with BMW No. 13901465030 costs MSRP $72.53 from BMW. This is installed in newer BMW motorcycles. You can get it on the open market for around $ 30. BMW 13901465030 = Bosch No. 0 280 142 310

    However, there are 2 small differences that should be noted:

    On one side the new valve on the connection side to the activated carbon filter has an 8mm connection. The old valve has a 6mm connection. The other side (towards the suction) is identical with both 8mm.
    Exchange the 6mm hose for an 8mm hose and also attach it to the activated carbon filter on the 6mm nozzle. This is completely easy.

    On the other side you have to turn the rubber ring from the holder/bracket so that the flow direction of the new valve is correct (installation position is marked with an arrow).
    This tip was posted on the German 7 Forum.

  2. #2
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    I just remember, some years ago we made a repair of these on my wrenching buddy's E32 Alpina B12 with M70 engine and we disassembled the valves to study the design and we found another possible part number and installed it.

    Pics Bosch 0 280 142 150 + BMW 13901726705 made by AB-Elektronik, used from 11/1989 in E30, E36, E34, E32, Z1, Z3, Price abt. EURO 70. Also fits on E32 750, tested on Alpina B12 M70, pics below, ETK only mentions M30:

    comparison of both valves from outside http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-mZZ3yrbTUo...0/P1140101.jpg
    comparison connectors http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-HixJ6Wp070...0/P1140102.jpg
    http://4.bp.blogspot.com/--Xa7pKon4M...0/P1140104.jpg
    the plastic Y-piece usually breakes between valves and charcoal cannister http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-3yf8sOJPuW...0/P1160664.jpg
    steel replacement of Y-piece http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-LM3DVJLycM...0/P1160692.jpg
    disassembled valve
    http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-ZF4luzt4cs...0/P1140107.jpg
    http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-PS8Kbg5Hny...0/P1140112.jpg
    http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-Q7AYHSDmzn...0/P1140113.jpg
    http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-4ZNHsDbeOW...0/P1140115.jpg
    http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-JeF3EO9PUX...0/P1140116.jpg
    http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-S2HgbwNYa3...1600/valve.gif
    Last edited by shogun; 04-26-2020 at 09:08 AM.

  3. #3
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    Default

    Hi Erich, how does one know it requires replacing?

  4. #4
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    Here a brief translation of the original test procedure from the BMW tech manual
    German: Aus Pruefanleitung DME 1.1/M1.3:
    Tankentlueftung bei Modellen mit Katalysator
    ..in der Leitung vom Aktivekohlefilter zum Luftsammler befindet sich ein Ventil, das den Entlueftungsstrom abhaengig vom aktuellen Betriebszustand drosselt oder freigibt. Die elektrische Ansteuerung (Taktung) des Ventils erfolgt drehzahl- und lastabhaengig. Der Entlueftungszyklus beinhaltet 16 Taktstufen und beginnt, sobald die Lambdaregelung aktiv ist. Nach Ablauf eines Zyklus erfolgt die Schliessung des Ventils fuer ca. 5 Minuten. Im stromlosen Zustand ist das Ventil nur durch das Rueckschlagventil verschlossen. Bei steigendem Unterdruck im Luftsammler wird das Ventil geoeffnet, so lange keine Spannung (12V) anliegt.

    Tankentlueftungsventil (TE-Ventil) pruefen: Das TE-Ventil wird im Sekundentakt angesteuert. Die Taktung ist mit der Hand fuehlbar.
    Dichtheit pruefen: Unterdruckversorgung vom vom Service-Tester am 8-mm Anschluss anschliessen (Durchflusspfeil beachten). Unterdruck auf 600 mbar einregulieren und TE-Ventil mit 12V versorgen. Unterdruckpumpe abschalten, nach 20 Sekunden darf der Druckabfall 50 mbar nicht uebersteigen. Im stromlosen Zustand ist das TE-Ventil durch ein Rueckschlagventil bis zu einem Saugrohrunterdruck von 20 mbar geschlossen.
    Ansteuerphasen pruefen: Das TE-Ventil wird im Leerlauf angesteuert und ist somit geschlossen. Sobald die Lambdaregelung aktiv ist und die Drehzahl bis ca. 1600 UPM erhoeht wird, kann die schrittweise Oeffnung beobachtet werden.
    Kurzprüfung: Das Tankentlüftungsventil sollte einen Widerstand von 45 ± 20 Ohm haben und in spannungslosem Zustand geschlossen sein.

    google translate: From test instructions DME 1.1/M1.3:
    Tank ventilation on models with catalytic converter: .. there is a venting valve in the line from the activated carbon filter to the air collector, which throttles or releases the ventilation flow depending on the current operating state. The electrical control (pulsing) of the valve is speed and load dependent. The ventilation cycle includes 16 pulsing cycles/levels and starts as soon as the lambda control is active. After one cycle, the valve closes for approx. 5 minutes. When de-energized, the valve is only closed by the check valve. With increasing vacuum in the air collector, the valve is opened as long as there is no voltage (12V).
    Check tank venting valve (TE valve): The TE valve is activated every second. The timing can be felt by hand. (TE = Tank Entlueftungsventil in German)
    Check for leaks: Connect the vacuum supply from the service tester to the 8 mm connection (note the flow arrow). Adjust vacuum to 600 mbar and supply the TE valve with 12V. Switch off vacuum pump, after 20 seconds the pressure drop must not exceed 50 mbar. When de-energized, the TE valve is closed by a non-return valve up to an intake manifold vacuum of 20 mbar.
    Check activation phases: The TE valve is activated in idle mode and is therefore closed. As soon as the lambda control is active and the RPM is increased up to approx. 1600 rpm, the gradual opening can be observed.
    Brief test: The tank ventilation valve should have a resistance of 45 ± 20 Ohm and be closed when de-energized.

  5. #5
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  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by BigKriss View Post
    Hi Erich, how does one know it requires replacing?
    The correct name is charcoal canister purge valve or EVAP purge valve.

    I did a writeup on this back in the day with internals pictures, here:
    http://web.archive.org/web/200612140.../e34a/id7.html

    Apply battery voltage to terminals and listen for a click and blow through. It should allow blowing from engine end to charcoal canister end, and should block blowing the opposite way. If energising the controls shuts the flow (or de-energising, don't remember exactly), then the valve is fine. If a click is not heard then it's clogged. Spray carb/throttle body cleaner and repeat the blowing procedure. This is a pretty much a fool-proof item, and does not need to be replaced.
    2) this valve is more of a gimmick rather than a functionally valuable piece. The ventillation of the gas tank occurs through the charcoal canister. The charcoal is used because it does not allow gasoline fumes through, however it does allow air through. Looking at the bottom of a charcoal canister we find holes through which air enters into the canister and through the ventilation line into the gas tank. (Gas tank gets three lines Gas Out, Gas In , Ventilation). This and only this canister, is essentially the gas tank breather valve allowing air into the tank while retaining the fumes. Looking into earlier engine management systems through ETK, one can find applications that do nor have the EVAP purge valve, yet simply and only have the charcoal container connected to the gas tank. And the charcoal canister does not get carried out to under the hood, but remains next to the gas tank in the rear end of the car. If I remember correctly, this was the case in for example BMW e9 2800, 3.0 CS, etc.
    Last edited by Rustam; 05-10-2020 at 03:50 AM.

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  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by shogun View Post
    Fuel Tank Breather Valve 13901711395 is used on
    The cheapest thing to do is spray carb cleaner inside and energize and blow a few times. Blowing from engine end to charcoal canister end should occur. Blowing in the opposite direction should not. It gets clogged with carbon that is easily cleared by that cleaner. Also may get stuck because of carbon, allowing air both ways. You should know, this is on my website. No need to spend 30 dollars. And, as mentioned by me just above to Kris, this valve is more of a gimmick.

    The gas tank is NOT ventilated through this valve. The gas tank is ventilated through the charcoal canister, it has openings in its bottom. Take a look under it, in your car. Charcoal restricts flow of gasoline fumes, yet allows passage of air.

    Earlier cars did not have the valve, but did have charcoal canisters, albeit much closer to gas tanks, practically next to them, not under their hoods.

    Once again: http://web.archive.org/web/200612140.../e34a/id7.html


    .
    Last edited by Rustam; 05-10-2020 at 03:55 AM.

    deleted air conditioning

  8. #8

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    .

    Finally, for a moment of fun " you could tell this guy has sucked a few EVAP valves":

    Last edited by Rustam; 05-10-2020 at 03:51 AM.

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  9. #9
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    Default A few more 2c worth...

    Quote Originally Posted by Rustam View Post
    .
    Finally, for a moment of fun " you could tell this guy has sucked a few EVAP valves":
    He sure has! Esp when he says "You can blow like the wolf" Maybe he's following a very lengthy linear progression (or a few too many lines?)

    Hi Rustam, thanks for posting. Good to see you're still around too :-)

    I had EVAP valve troubles before. On one it was the line, on another the valve. On later BMWs the plastic PCV plumbing cracks and fails at age, and one of the very common codes thrown is 'EVAP valve/solenoid valve'. I actually did have a valve fail on the e46 M54 (causing an open-circuit code, which was the valve (which is available cheaply as an OEM item from China, and physically won't be far off fitting the e34 either).

    On my older e34 535, the valve's inner seal inside the evap valve failed, so idle was rough. I cleaned it with fuel and alcohol and it began sealing properly again, so it passed the blow test!

    As I understand it, the evap valve draws air through the valve when the ECU decides to open it (when the engine is at speed) as this helps clear air pressure in the tank on hot days without pollution. Also, once the engine is running, warmed fuel begins returning to the tank, causing evaporative pressure to increase. The canister and its holes prevent stale fumes being emitted once the car is parked and engine shut down- especially if you leave it in a sunny place, and/or above hot asphalt surface so the fuel tank heats up. In the old days, when they first installed carbon canisters with carbs, (E3/E9?), they just had the canister, but the carbon gums up faster if the engine doesn't help remove the vapours during use, so it was worth installing the valve and a third pipe to link it to the intake.

    In the later cars, the ECU has a fair bit of logic around opening this valve to meet an improved emissions regime/more active PCV cycle.
    Last edited by genphreak; 05-18-2020 at 11:44 AM.

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  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by genphreak View Post
    carbon gums up faster
    carbon in the charcoal canister gums up? not sure if youre confusing this one with the carbon buildup from combustion. I dont believe carbon in the charcoal canister gums up, given own experiements in blowing through the canister that was god knows how old. If that gums up then it should block entry of air into the gas takn, and subsequent implosion due to negative pressure from dropping fuel level. most certainly that effect should be alleviated by the intermittently opening EVAP valve, but through the years some deformation of the gas tank should be evident.

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