Tickety Tick Tock

[632 Regal]

Time to check out the Grandfather Clock.

Noticed when warm at idle a few lifter ticks, defenitely sounds like weak oil pressure gradually getting worse. Since I use synthetic it's not old broken down oil. Looked around to see where I can tap into to check the oil pressure and I thought why even bother with it? Need to put all the bolts back into the oil pump and tighten the chain. I would prefer to drop in a 4.0 but without a 2nd backup vehicle that is pretty much out of the question without help. Going to grab a lower oil pan gasket and see what makes this thing tick. Will update.

Speaking of Update, Dave! How did that steering box deal work out?

[genphreak]

Time to check out the Grandfather Clock... I would prefer to drop in a 4.0 but without a 2nd backup vehicle that is pretty much out of the question without help. Going to grab a lower oil pan gasket and see what makes this thing tick. Will update.

Heh, I know the feeling. But also, timing chains and coolant pipes et al in the valley can all need costly parts/attention when they get 'this gray in the jowls;'.

Thought about sourcing a cheap M62 out of an X5/e39 540/ e38 740? I can sense deep in my soul that you need... yes, that's right...

Moah powaah!

Better to invest your time and money in the new generation. (they still need timing chains and cooling pipes, just different ones!)

... And besides... It's not so hard to do: E.g.

Fill the fridge with whatever it will take and line up I reckon perhaps 40 beers along the wall beside it. Every job looks easier when broken down/punctuated with beer.

Remove bonnet, pull down the front, unbolt and disconnect, pull it out. Stick new one back in, a few mods to the wiring, don't suggest you get the VANOS version unless you want to spend more money...

[632 Regal]

Not a big fan of those M62s with the single timing chain. Those seem to need replacement at around 125K not like the old M60s that never need them redone. My 3.0 runs great I am just disappointed it lacks the power of Nikka. The difference is substantial and mileage the same, just Nikka had that slight miss at idle. I have no worries about sticking a 4.0 where a 3.0 goes in front of the auto slushbox since I do believe Nikka had that option. Someone here did that swap years ago with no issues but then again that was years ago. I sure would appreciate this thing more with a bit more power...

[genphreak]

Not a big fan of those M62s with the single timing chain. Those seem to need replacement at around 125K not like the old M60s that never need them redone. My 3.0 runs great I am just disappointed it lacks the power of Nikka. The difference is substantial and mileage the same, just Nikka had that slight miss at idle. I have no worries about sticking a 4.0 where a 3.0 goes in front of the auto slushbox since I do believe Nikka had that option. Someone here did that swap years ago with no issues but then again that was years ago. I sure would appreciate this thing more with a bit more power...

Indeed. You mean, like this? You know the block, cams and most other parts are the same, so one option is to put in just a B40 bottom end, manifolds and heads (as the B40 has bigger valves).

One day I know I'll be taking the intake off mine to redo the head intake seals, pcv, coolant pipes, valley pan. In looking at what else is to be done at the same time you get to the oil separator and yes, chains. Trouble with the timing chains is more guide related- the plastics in both M60 and M62 crack up and end up lodged in the sump, but enough remains to keep the chain from failing before the noise gets to people. Have you confirmed there are M62 chain failures or is it more worn guides/noise? All M62 chains are noisy at startup as soon as the guides fail.

The ideal rebuilt M6x is a Frankenstein of old and new. I made a list of what to do if I ever have to build an M62B44/46 (I have a spare 4.0 here ready for this day) so I'll list it below. Have just updated it to retain M60 chains, but realise now that this is probably the straw that breaks the camel's back: One can start with an M62 block, but it is really not much different to turning the old M60 upside down, dropping in the B44 or B46 internals and going from there. Nothing to stop you using M62 heads unless you want to leave the M60 ones on there or something. In which case, you can even start with an M60B30 ;-)

However the following assumes starting with an M62:

Rebuild items
Early M62 block, B44/46 crank/rods. Avoid anything with VANOS parts. A lot of people convert to OBDI rather than using original/third party ECU.

Transfer from donor:
M60 Both upper timing covers
M60 Lower timing cover (or use M62 and make a bolt-on bracket for the CPS, if opting to leave the Jesus bolt)
M60 double row timing chains, additional sprockets and guides on the block, spacers for M60 cams on M62 the heads.
- Replace worn chain and sprockets
Additional spacer under CPS on left side to allow CPS to mount without hitting when the M62 crank rotates
M60 belt-driven ancillaries (though I'm looking into using M62TU tensioners atm)
M60 OBDI harness, ECU with M62 OBD-I tune
M60 throttle body / TPS
M60 harmonic balancer / pulley system
M60 intake manifold
M60 oil pan
M60 cams (or remove the VANOS ends (hardened camshafts aren't the easiest to machine or cut) from the M62 ones to fit to the M60 heads/timing chain)

Am I not tempting you yet?

[genphreak]

I have no worries about sticking a 4.0 where a 3.0 goes in front of the auto slushbox since I do believe Nikka had that option. Someone here did that swap years ago with no issues but then again that was years ago. I sure would appreciate this thing more with a bit more power...

Have you considered the 'easy upgrade' for a B30? Its just a few bolt-ons from a B40:

- Manifold
- PCV/Backplate for vacuum connections (on the back of the manifold)
- Internal and external manifold breather pipes (one runs on left hand side of manifold (slides back and forth when removing/installing manifold)

It's amazing but this is all it takes for the B30 to be able to breathe properly.

Optional:
- Throttle body, MAF and intake bellows and filter. Not much need for them as it won't suck that much more air volume than a stock B30. If you do, simply switch over throttle cable plate from B30 manifold.

The hardest part is cleaning all the oily B40 bits!

You should get well in excess of 10HP from just these- some have done it and think 30 was had(?!)

[632 Regal]

Have you considered the 'easy upgrade' for a B30? Its just a few bolt-ons from a B40:

- Manifold
- PCV/Backplate for vacuum connections (on the back of the manifold)
- Internal and external manifold breather pipes (one runs on left hand side of manifold (slides back and forth when removing/installing manifold)

It's amazing but this is all it takes for the B30 to be able to breathe properly.

Optional:
- Throttle body, MAF and intake bellows and filter. Not much need for them as it won't suck that much more air volume than a stock B30. If you do, simply switch over throttle cable plate from B30 manifold.

The hardest part is cleaning all the oily B40 bits!

You should get well in excess of 10HP from just these- some have done it and think 30 was had(?!)

Bigger intake, throttle body will bring the powerband up even higher. Mine doesn't start to produce anything until +4k. My cams could be off tune, there is no way this thing would have sold as it is new.

Waiting for the local pullapart.com to drag in a smashed 4.0, been keeping my eyes open for a little while. If the car is smashed the engine should be good, if the body is good the engine or trans will be bad.

[genphreak]

Bigger intake, throttle body will bring the powerband up even higher. Mine doesn't start to produce anything until +4k. My cams could be off tune, there is no way this thing would have sold as it is new.

Waiting for the local pullapart.com to drag in a smashed 4.0, been keeping my eyes open for a little while. If the car is smashed the engine should be good, if the body is good the engine or trans will be bad.

That bad eh? They outperform an M30 on paper, and I've driven a few- most were quite fine. They are also very economical, though few people consider they use less fuel than the B40. Again, on paper they do, by a fair way. Some is weight- mostly the huge 5HP30 tranny (125kg vs 85kg for the 5HP18), but also the 210mm diff and thicker brake discs). Plus he engine is also de-tuned for economy, which is perhaps why that intake swap yields really decent results. What you say about shifting the powerband up may be true, but the search online, people like the results. I doubt there is any need to change the TB but at least one could leave it first time round so you can do it for fun at a later date. and see the difference?

Jeff have you checked if that the PCV block and throttle body housing are not missing some bungs (venting atmosphere) and there is no other vacuum leak? Or are you thinking you have some compression loss?

[632 Regal]

That bad eh? They outperform an M30 on paper, and I've driven a few- most were quite fine. They are also very economical, though few people consider they use less fuel than the B40. Again, on paper they do, by a fair way. Some is weight- mostly the huge 5HP30 tranny (125kg vs 85kg for the 5HP18), but also the 210mm diff and thicker brake discs). Plus he engine is also de-tuned for economy, which is perhaps why that intake swap yields really decent results. What you say about shifting the powerband up may be true, but the search online, people like the results. I doubt there is any need to change the TB but at least one could leave it first time round so you can do it for fun at a later date. and see the difference?

Jeff have you checked if that the PCV block and throttle body housing are not missing some bungs (venting atmosphere) and there is no other vacuum leak? Or are you thinking you have some compression loss?

That is the whole thing, I have nothing to compare it to besides former Nikky. Nikky had low compression on 2 cylinders but above idle was just fine, almost increadable compared to this new thing that still remains nameless. Nikky had leaks and I replaced intake gaskets, plates, hoses, injectors etc and still had that idle miss. The air horns in the intake, 2 were bouncing around, everything was the cause for the miss but nothing fixed it... just an old nikasil failure I guess.

New one has even compression on all cylinders, no intake leaks etc. I should do the cam timing but lack the cam blocks. This car according to history had major engine work around 50K, so I assumed a new engine but the performance sucks. Still think I was spoiled with a 4.0 in disguise. Does not have an idle miss or anything besides a hot idle lifter chatter which I already have the gasket to put the oil pump back together. Other than that it's a very weak example of a V8.

[genphreak]

That is the whole thing, I have nothing to compare it to besides former Nikky. Nikky had low compression on 2 cylinders but above idle was just fine, almost increadable compared to this new thing that still remains nameless. Nikky had leaks and I replaced intake gaskets, plates, hoses, injectors etc and still had that idle miss. The air horns in the intake, 2 were bouncing around, everything was the cause for the miss but nothing fixed it... just an old nikasil failure I guess.

New one has even compression on all cylinders, no intake leaks etc. I should do the cam timing but lack the cam blocks. This car according to history had major engine work around 50K, so I assumed a new engine but the performance sucks. Still think I was spoiled with a 4.0 in disguise. Does not have an idle miss or anything besides a hot idle lifter chatter which I already have the gasket to put the oil pump back together. Other than that it's a very weak example of a V8.

Hmm. Plugs are correct /gapped properly? Are you positive its not just intake leaks? Ever heard an intake backfire if you hold it in a low gear and when back off throttle hard from high revs?

When they replaced the motor maybe they only did a long block replacement so transferred over the intake and other items, thus making it suffer leaks- possibly only at a later date. There are so many opportunities/places for leaks to happen, at this age its worth pulling it down to check- unless you can do a smoke test.

[632 Regal]

Hmm. Plugs are correct /gapped properly? Are you positive its not just intake leaks? Ever heard an intake backfire if you hold it in a low gear and when back off throttle hard from high revs?

When they replaced the motor maybe they only did a long block replacement so transferred over the intake and other items, thus making it suffer leaks- possibly only at a later date. There are so many opportunities/places for leaks to happen, at this age its worth pulling it down to check- unless you can do a smoke test.

Swapped everything from Nikky before I sold her. MAf computer boxes etc. Even the 3:64 rear gears. Nothing changed. No backfires, can tell them when it gets cold if it's the intake gaskets. plugs look good, non-gapable type. Been through it all, not an intake leak issue. The motor pulls a bit harder than my sons 328 at the time. However this current engine as I mentionsed does not pull until 4000 rpms (4200) and then it is weaker than Nikka. Engine should start to pull before 4K in my opinion. Engine has all the 3.0 garb, intake the small one, throttle body the small one, intake and even the airbox intake is the small 3.0 same as Nikka.