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Thread: Instrument cluster / phony mileage ….

  1. #1
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    Default Instrument cluster / phony mileage ….

    I’m assuming that the only way to clock an E34 is to swap out the instrument cluster with a lower mileage one. Thus, I’d like to know if there’s a definitive way to verify the originality of an instrument cluster. In Canada, it’s very, very common to find j-spec E34’s with either no or spotty history records, ratty interiors, more mechanical wear than their suspiciously low odometer readings seem to indicate….kinda like trying to pass-off a 45 year old cougar as a 21 year old hottie.

  2. #2
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    The coding plug contains the mileage and VIN.
    If you hold in the right(?) side button on the cluster it will display it's identity, including VIN. If a cluster is swapped the #s won't match unless the coding plug was also changed in which case the original mileage would be displayed.
    The plugs can be reprogrammed but by very few. Shogun has a contact in Germany that is capable but not for purposes of fraud. Given the values of E34s and the difficulty of resetting the odometer clocking these cars is a fools errand. If your VIN matches what the cluster displays I'd be confident the reading is correct. Unless you have reason to suspect it could have been clocked long ago when it might be cost effective for the perpetrator.
    Last edited by Ross; 05-31-2009 at 02:17 PM.
    "The gas pedal wouldn't go to the floor if it weren't meant to be there"

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ross View Post
    The coding plug contains the mileage and VIN.
    If you hold in the right(?) side button on the cluster it will display it's identity, including VIN. If a cluster is swapped the #s won't match unless the coding plug was also changed in which case the original mileage would be displayed.
    The plugs can be reprogrammed but by very few. Shogun has a contact in Germany that is capable but not for purposes of fraud. Given the values of E34s and the difficulty of resetting the odometer clocking these cars is a fools errand. If your VIN matches what the cluster displays I'd be confident the reading is correct. Unless you have reason to suspect it could have been clocked long ago when it might be cost effective for the perpetrator.
    Many thanks Ross. I just checked and on my 535iM, when I hold the button in, the central display shows a rectangular box then a few seconds later all the pixels light up…but no VIN number; can someone verify this on their car pretty please?! On j-spec imports I think clocking is common place, as I’ve seen several j-spec E34’s with less than 80K km on them with interiors that look much worse than my 89 535iM with 289K km on the clock with an “average” looking interior….I think it’s way easier to sell them on those site-unseen online Japanese auction houses when they’re clocked....

  4. #4
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    You are completely wrong. J-spec cars do not need clocking and it is completely unneccessary.
    I have several 750, and no one has 200.000 km.
    Standard in Japan is about 7.500 km per year in average. Often much less.

    I can buy here cars with 50.000 km which are 15-20 years old, no problem at all.
    People do not use usually to drive to office in the crowded areas of greater Tokyo Bay. First of all, train/subway is much faster and more convenient, and also cheaper.

    And for long distances we use bullet trains, and they are also faster and more convenient and cheaper.

    If something happens, then it happens between the Japanese export and the arrival at the enduser site in another country.
    And yes, the car could look more used than you have seen on your car with 289 k km.
    Because the time spent for let's say 100 k km is maybe the same like you spend in Canada for 289 k km.
    I have an average speed of 25 kmh at the moment on my OBC, so you know how fast we go from A to B.
    Here in Tokyo Bay we have more than 30 mio. people, and that is about 1/3 of the total population of Japan. Whenever possible, people avoid using a car, public transport is much more convenient, faster, cheaper and safer.

    Your 1989 has the grey cluster, and there are not so many data to get out, there is no self test, see here
    http://bmwe32.masscom.net/johan/299960/299960.html

    And of course it can be checked what a car has been driven. If the car was maintenanced by BMW Japan, always they write down the km on the invoice, and for Shaken (road test certificate) they also record the details.
    But is it really worth to 'modify' the miles/km on a 20 year old car? I would be proud of it if my car had 500.000 km, but unfortunately my daily driver has only 156.000 km so far and that is from 11/1988.
    And that I bought in 1994 with 32.000 km, and that was 100% not faked, because the car was owned by the uncle of my wife. And I know the history of the car better than he knows. So 6 years 32.000 kms only. He only used the car on weekends to drive to the mountain areas for the golf resort he invited his business friends, that was all the car was used. For real business he never used it, he used the public transport.
    Last edited by shogun; 05-31-2009 at 06:04 PM.

  5. #5
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    Thanks kindly Erich , I stand corrected. Don’t get me wrong as I’ve seen some stunning j-spec examples that were in absolutely beautiful shape. Then I’ve also seem some pretty rough cars. Just recently I saw an E34 M5 that was imported from Germany with 185K km. Full history file, pristine interior, very, very clean exterior. Shortly thereafter I looked at a j-spec E34, no history file, < 50K km, peeling clear coat on the hood and roof, trashed interior, running rough and belching blue smoke. From what you’re saying then, many of the j-spec cars must have seen lots n’ lots n’ lots of “idle time”...

  6. #6
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    Yes, lot's of idle time. And also very important is where the cars were parked. My car always has been parked in a ventilated garage = under a roof, even some years in a garage with aircon in a large bulding complex.
    The paint is nice, the interior is nice, no paint peeling. Then I have seen BMW of the same age, always parked outside without cover.
    Paint completely different, headliner coming down, leather colour faded and so on, even the wood is affected by that heat and sunshine. Here in Tokyo for example we have in the summer time temperatures of around 30-40 degree C, in raining season >90% humidtiy.

    Cars from Germany usually have high km, but often these high km come from long Autobahn drives. So the wear is completely different.
    For example to drive a car in Japan for 10 k km< doors are opened x times more, engines are started x times more, car has been running thousands of hours more in idle, brakes have been used more often but less hard than in Germany on the Autobahn, cars in Japan are not over-reved than compared with Germany on Autobahn, because no way to drive fast. Max speed is limited to 100 kmh, even on Highway.
    As I am also active on the German board, I have noticed that they have different probs than we have in Japan, because the use of the car is different.
    Still I belive that cars from Japan are generally a good buy, not much corrosion, unless they are from certain areas (for example Okinawa Islands), and usually maintained by dealers, not much DIY.
    Of course, as in any other country, it finally is all up to the previous owner how he maintained the car.

  7. #7
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    to answer your original question:

    I’m assuming that the only way to clock an E34 is to swap out the instrument cluster with a lower mileage one. Thus, I’d like to know if there’s a definitive way to verify the originality of an instrument cluster.
    To swap out the cluster is the amateur mistake by shady dealers. Some years back I have helped a guy in Germany to win a court case.
    The stupid dealer has swapped the cluster. So the chip had all data from the other car, VIN was different in the cluster chip and other data.
    Dealer had to pay about 2000 $, clocked back 100000 kms.

    Basically it is very easy on the clusters with blue and white back, the other one in the wire loom for the grey cluster requires more time.
    But the seal where the chip is installed in the back of the cluster will be destroyed when taking the chip out for 'adjustment'.
    You can assume that a chip fixer for these shady dealers also has the right seal material.

    There are no other stored data than in the chip, not in the keys or other places, which should not be mentioned here.

    For the guys which have the 299.960 problem, where with they grey cluster backside it stops to count, it is only of importance to make sure that the new cluster with another chip and identity from the other car will be adopted to the new (own) car, that means VIN data and others, and the original miles/km the car has, not to make less miles, because these people are proud of their many miles and they want to have it recorded.

    Ufortunately, I will never make half a million km/miles.
    That would be something to show off.....

    maybe I need some chip tuning ;-)
    +400 k km

  8. #8
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    Erich, as always, very helpful. Vielen Dank!

    PS. I think you need to bring one of your E32’s to Canada; tour this beautiful country coast-to-coast, then visit our friends south of the 49th parallel and walla!....you’ll have your 500K km ......

  9. #9
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    Hmm interesting stuff. I've often suspected my car has been clocked. Bit of a shabby interior (just the door liners), somthing like 142,000kms (for a ~20 year old car in Australia that is somewhat low) on the clock (when I bought it) and it was imported from Hong Kong. There's a red light, which is off under normal conditions, next to the ODO which will turn on if the milage has been tampered with, so I've heard.
    So my car, and assuming the cluster, is an 09/89 535i, the cluster won't display the VIN? Any other way to check? part numbers?
    Last edited by Ken35i; 06-01-2009 at 03:50 AM.
    Ken, from Melbourne AUS.
    '89 535iA with a 5 speed swap.

  10. #10
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    09/89 should be a white backplate and the chip is in the back of the cluster.
    02/89 -> 09/90 White PIC 93C46 1024 bytes Self test + diagnosis via Modic. Code plug is standard EPROM
    At least on E32 cars.

    and you should be able to make a self test and display the VIN.
    You can also remove the cluster and check the chip, usually it has the VIN number on it
    http://i28.tinypic.com/102uw5h.jpg

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