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Thread: OT: Drove a 850i today....rather disappointed

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    Default OT: Drove a 850i today....rather disappointed

    Hi guys, I went to a used car-dealership today around my school and they had a 1991 850i Auto there, I believe it was imported from Japan since all the manuals and service records where in japenese. The body was in great condition but the motor looked like could have used ALOT of work.

    The intake manifold was very dirty which usually means not so great maintence.

    So I took it for a test drive and inspection, He was asking 11,000.

    It felt really solid and quiet which made it rather sleeper with a v12 under the hood. A little biut of play in the steering wheel but just lose inner tie rods. I got it out onto the highway to see what it could really do.

    As I was merging onto the highway, sure enough a new 335i in front of me...so we went at it....well, he went at it and left me LENGTHS behind....not even a challenge for the 335i.

    But while I was racing the 335i when I hit 158, all the windows went up...I thought that was rather smart. Then on the way back, again merging onto the highway in the opposite direction, a 350Z was stopped on the side of the road and must have seen me coming cause as soon as I got close he took off to come parallel with me. I pushed to the floor (In sport mode) and the 350Z pulled on me really hard.

    After that, driving normally, some check engine light comes on and the OBC says" OVERHEAT CATALYST".

    So I pull over and as I slow down I notice smoke pouring up from under the car. I turn off the engine immediately....look under the car and it seems to have oil leaking onto the Cats and then the floor...I pop the hood and check the dipstick,,,,oil level at full.

    So I drove back to the car dealer and explained the leaking engine oil, and when he wouldn't budge past 11, I figured it wasn't worth it to take a chance to see what was leaking.

    Overall it's a solid car, and you really have to look down at your speed to keep from going too fast. Just sucks that it can't really keep up to modern sports car's with twice the amount of cylinders...not to mention, theres not much you can do performance wise without a lot of modification


    BMW E34 1992 525i Touring

    RIP Touring...probably never going to drive you again...

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    Quote Originally Posted by bad_manners_god View Post
    Hi guys, I went to a used car-dealership today around my school and they had a 1991 850i Auto there, I believe it was imported from Japan since all the manuals and service records where in japenese. The body was in great condition but the motor looked like could have used ALOT of work.

    The intake manifold was very dirty which usually means not so great maintence.

    So I took it for a test drive and inspection, He was asking 11,000.

    It felt really solid and quiet which made it rather sleeper with a v12 under the hood. A little biut of play in the steering wheel but just lose inner tie rods. I got it out onto the highway to see what it could really do.

    As I was merging onto the highway, sure enough a new 335i in front of me...so we went at it....well, he went at it and left me LENGTHS behind....not even a challenge for the 335i.

    But while I was racing the 335i when I hit 158, all the windows went up...I thought that was rather smart. Then on the way back, again merging onto the highway in the opposite direction, a 350Z was stopped on the side of the road and must have seen me coming cause as soon as I got close he took off to come parallel with me. I pushed to the floor (In sport mode) and the 350Z pulled on me really hard.

    After that, driving normally, some check engine light comes on and the OBC says" OVERHEAT CATALYST".

    So I pull over and as I slow down I notice smoke pouring up from under the car. I turn off the engine immediately....look under the car and it seems to have oil leaking onto the Cats and then the floor...I pop the hood and check the dipstick,,,,oil level at full.

    So I drove back to the car dealer and explained the leaking engine oil, and when he wouldn't budge past 11, I figured it wasn't worth it to take a chance to see what was leaking.

    Overall it's a solid car, and you really have to look down at your speed to keep from going too fast. Just sucks that it can't really keep up to modern sports car's with twice the amount of cylinders...not to mention, theres not much you can do performance wise without a lot of modification
    jeez the things are nearly twenty years old....
    without the top speed limiter(155mph?) they would go quite well ithink.
    Gone but not forgotten

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    Wait.. so let me get this straight, you test drove a 17 year old, overweight, naturally aspirated and choked by an automatic trans 850, abused it racing it against a brand new TWIN turbo 335 (honestly did you REALLY think you had a chance?), then when losing once wasn't enough, caused the engine to spew oil racing a second time against someone else with yet again better power-to-weight ratio than the portly 850?

    What are you, 15 ?

    The 850 isn't a fast car, it was never really a fast car, and you had some over-inflated expectation of it. An 840 with a 6-speed could spank an 850 any day of the week. That V12 is way too finicky compared to an M62.


    "Scarlet" `97 540/6 with sleepy mods.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SnakeyesTx View Post
    Wait.. so let me get this straight, you test drove a 17 year old, overweight, naturally aspirated and choked by an automatic trans 850, abused it racing it against a brand new TWIN turbo 335 (honestly did you REALLY think you had a chance?), then when losing once wasn't enough, caused the engine to spew oil racing a second time against someone else with yet again better power-to-weight ratio than the portly 850?

    What are you, 15 ?

    The 850 isn't a fast car, it was never really a fast car, and you had some over-inflated expectation of it. An 840 with a 6-speed could spank an 850 any day of the week. That V12 is way too finicky compared to an M62.
    I knew I didn't have a chance against the 335i. I just didn't think he would leave 20+ lengths within 10 seconds.

    Did the 850i ever come 6 speed?


    BMW E34 1992 525i Touring

    RIP Touring...probably never going to drive you again...

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    Quote Originally Posted by bad_manners_god View Post
    I knew I didn't have a chance against the 335i. I just didn't think he would leave 20+ lengths within 10 seconds.

    Did the 850i ever come 6 speed?
    yes and one of them was a sorta //m car,nearly 400 hp(850csi) but they are big heavy cars.Judging from other aspects of the car you tried perhaps its not even a good example to compare

    Quote Originally Posted by SnakeyesTx View Post
    The 850 isn't a fast car, it was never really a fast car, and you had some over-inflated expectation of it. An 840 with a 6-speed could spank an 850 any day of the week. That V12 is way too finicky compared to an M62.
    not entirely sure thats true .the v12 isnt that bad very very good torque figures,its unusual parentage means there is a lot of duplication/redudancy built in so some people cant troubleshoot them


    some 850 csi info LONG>>>

    Production VersionsEG93: United States-spec (LHD), 10/93 thru 06/95
    EG92: European-spec (RHD), 06/93 thru 06/96
    EG91: European-spec (LHD), 08/92 thru 10/96






    History

    What makes the 850CSi unique?
    The 850CSi is the the BMW Motorsport-developed version of the E31 8 Series coupe. It is powered by the S70 V12 engine, a BMW Motorsport-enhanced version the standard production M70 powerplant. In addition, the 850CSi features a BMW Motorsport-tuned chassis and several unique cosmetic items.

    Where was the 850CSi introduced?
    The 850CSi was introduced at the 1991 Frankfurt International Motor Show.

    Where was the 850CSi produced?
    The 850CSi was built on the regular 8 Series assembly line at BMW's Dingolfing factory.

    Is the 850CSi considered an M car?
    Although not badged as such, the 850CSi was developed by BMW Motorsport (later renamed BMW M) and is therefore a true M car.

    If the 850CSi was developed by M, why is it not badged as an "M8"?
    BMW Motorsport did develop a prototype 8 Series with a lightweight body and a 550-hp 48-valve V12 engine that was known as the M8. However, BMW pulled the plug on the M8 and stated, "We're just not interested in putting our name on cars like this anymore." Instead, a more mild 8 Series with a 24-valve version of the V12 and normal steel body panels was chosen for production. This model was named 850CSi, perhaps because it was more closely related to the regular 850Ci coupe than the M8 prototype or perhaps because BMW did not wish to attach the M badge to a rather large and heavy grand touring coupe.

    What does the "CSi" suffix denote?
    The "CSi" suffix was first used in 1971 on the E9 3.0 CSi coupe to denote "Coupe Sport injection". It was carried over by the 3.0 CSi's successor, the E24 633CSi (and its successors, the 628CSi, 635CSi and M635CSi). However, in the case of the 8 Series, the CSi suffix is unique to the M-powered version (all other 8 Series models have either an "i" or "Ci" suffix).



    Production Data

    How many versions of the 850CSi were developed?
    Three versions of the 850CSi were developed: Two European-spec models (left-hand drive and right-hand drive) and a United States-spec version.

    How many of each version were produced?
    ECE (LHD): 1,125 built from 08/92 thru 10/96
    ECE (RHD): 160 built from 06/93 thru 06/96
    US (LHD): 225 built from 10/93 thru 06/95

    What changed during the production of the 850CSi?
    There were no major mechanical changes to the 850CSi during the three and a half years that it was produced. However, the 850CSi did receive a myriad of smaller running changes that affected all 8 Series models. These included the addition of Coded Driveaway Protection (1/95 producton) and revisions to the ABS braking system, door locking system, audio system, on-board computer and other minor equipment changes.

    How does the the U.S.-spec version of the 850CSi differ from the European-spec model?
    Though lagely similar in specification and appearance, the U.S.-spec 850CSi was denied the following items, largely for cost reasons:
    -Engine oil cooler
    -Transmission oil cooler
    -Active Rear-Axle Kinematics (AHK)
    -Upgraded 13.6-inch front brakes rotors, all rotors with "floating" design
    -Smoked front turn signal lenses
    -M aerodynamic rear-view mirrors

    However, U.S. models do include exterior door handles embossed with "BMW Motorsport" and Extended Yew wood interior trim, both items not normally found on the European-spec version.



    Drivetrain

    How is the S70 engine different from the M70 V12 upon which it is based?
    When creating the 850CSi's S70 V12 motor, BMW Motorsport began with the standard 24-valve SOHC M70 engine and instituted the following changes:
    -Increased bore (from 85mm to 86mm) and stroke (from 79mm to 80mm) for a new total displacement of 5,576cc (from 4,988cc)
    -Lighter pistons
    -Increased compression (from 8.8:1 to 9.8:1)
    -More aggressive valve timing for increased high-rpm power
    -Larger diameter exhaust pipes
    -Variable rpm limit (6,400 in 1st+2nd, 6,200 in 3rd, 6,100 in 4th. 6,000 in 5th+6th)
    -Adjustable throttle sensitivity via dual mode (Sport or Komfort) console-mounted switch
    -Engine oil cooler (European-spec models only)

    These modifications resulted in an increase in maximum power from 300 hp (DIN) or 296 hp (SAE) at 5,200 rpm to 380 hp (DIN) or 372 hp (SAE) at 5,300 rpm. In addition, maximum torque was increased from 332 lb/ft at 4,100 rpm to 402 lb/ft at 4,000 rpm.

    This engine can be identified by the "Powered by M" inscription on the central cam cover between the two banks of cylinders.

    What kind of gearbox does the 850CSi have?
    The sole gearbox offered for the 850CSi was the Getrag Type E six-speed manual with the following ratios: 4.25 (1), 2.53 (2), 1.68 (3), 1.24 (4), 1.00 (5), 0.83 (6). This is mated to a 2.93:1 rear end with limited slip differential. In addition, Automatic Stability Control plus Traction (ASC+T), which can apply the brakes and/or reduce engine power in the event of traction loss, is fitted as standard to the 850CSi. Finally, European-spec models are equipped with a transmission oil cooler.



    Chassis

    How is the chassis different from that of a standard 8 Series coupe?
    The 850CSi's chassis is based on that of a normal 8 Series and thus is made up of MacPherson struts in front and a multi-link system that comprises five components (upper transverse link, two lower transverse links, longitudinal link and integral link) in the rear. However, BMW Motorsport specified stronger front hubs, stiffer shocks and shorter springs (by 10mm) for the 850CSi.

    In addition, all Euro-spec cars are fitted with Active Rear-Axle Kinematics (known by its German abbreviation AHK for Aktive Hinterachs-Kinematik). The system works by turning the rear wheels in the same direction as the fronts in order to facilitate change of direction and weight shift in a corner. The hydraulically-controlled AHK system activates at speeds above approximately 60 kph (37 mph) and can turn the rear wheels up to 2.5 degrees depending on the angle of the front wheels.

    How is the steering different from that of a standard 8 Series coupe?
    The 850CSi's steering system is based on the same recirculating ball design as the standard 8 Series but incorporates ZF Servotronic vehicle-speed-sensitive power assist (in place of the usual engine-speed-sensitive system) and a quicker rack (2.8 turns lock-to-lock instead of 3.3 turns).

    What size brakes does the 850CSi have?
    There are two different braking systems for the 850CSi. European-spec cars are equipped with the same braking system that was fitted to the E34 M5 starting with May, 1994 production. This consists of 13.6-inch vented discs incorporating "floating" rotors and four-piston calipers in the front and 12.8-inch vented discs in the rear. U.S.-spec cars are fitted with the same brakes as the standard five-liter 850i/850Ci: 12.8-inch vented discs in the front and 12.8-inch solid discs in the rear.

    What size wheels and tires does the 850CSi have?
    There were two different wheel and tire packages for the 850CSi. Until early 1995 production, the 850CSi was equipped exclusively with three-piece M System II wheels consisting of a five-spoke forged alloy center and an outer cover in a "throwing star" design. These are sized 8x17-inch in the front and 9x17-inch in the rear with 235/45ZR17 and 265/40ZR17 tires, respectively.

    As of early 1995 production, 18-inch M Parallel Spoke forged alloy wheels became available, either as an option or as standard equipment depending on the market. The 8x18-inch front wheels are fitted with 245/40ZR18 tires, while the 9.5x18-inch rear wheels carry 285/35ZR18 tires.



    Cosmetics

    How dos the exterior of the 850CSi differ cosmetically from that of other 8 Series?
    Aside from its M-designed 17- or 18-inch wheels, the exterior of the 850CSi is distinguished by a unique front fascia that includes a deeper front airdam and air intake, more pronounced side sills and four round exhaust tips, two pairs on either side of a "diffuser" panel under the bumper. European-spec models also feature aerodynamic M rear-view mirrors, while U.S.-spec cars have unique door handles that are embossed with "BMW Motorsport" script. An "850CSi" badge appears on the trunk lid, but there are no M badges on the exterior of the car.

    How is the interior of the 850CSI different from that of a normal 8 Series?
    The interior of the 850CSi shares its basic architecture and design with all 8 Series coupes. The power and heated front seats are identical in shape and function to those fitted to other 8 Series models and include a three-position memory on the driver-side seat. Unlike other 8 Series models, however, the interior of the 850CSi could also be ordered in several two-tone or "Bicolor" Nappa leather combinations (Black/Dark Silvergray, Light Silvergray/Dark Silvergray, Black/Lotus White) in addition to all Black.

    Three different airbag-equipped steering wheels were offered depending on the market and production date: a three-spoke design, a four-spoke design (through 8/93 production) and a four-spoke M design with tri-color stitching on the rim (from 9/93 production). A leather shift knob was fitted to every 850CSi while all U.S.-spec models and some later European-spec cars received the leather shift knob with M tri-color stripe.

    Every 850CSi also features a special instrument cluster with red needles, a 300 kph/180 mph speedometer and a unique tachometer with a graduated redline (to reflect the variable rev limiter). There are also special plates with the "M" logo on both door sills. The U.S.-spec 850CSi is further distinguished by its standard Yew wood trim on the dashboard, front and rear center consoles, door panels and rear side panels. Several other types of wood trim could be ordered as an option in other markets.

    What features were optional on the 850CSi?
    The 850CSi was the flagship of the BMW range and was therefore fitted with most features as standard equipment. Options varied from market to market on Euro-spec cars but generally included various audio and phone systems, a power rear window sunshade, retractable headlight washers, wood trim and (from early 1995) 18-inch M Parallel Spoke wheels. There were no factory options for the U.S.-spec model
    Last edited by Paul in NZ; 08-20-2008 at 09:17 PM.
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    The 850 auto is a very heavy, underpowered car, it was a GT car not a sports car, and very few people bought them as a result. There is a reason why BMW only had them available for a short period of time.

    the CSi is much quicker.

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    All of this is true. I installed engine and transmission chips in the 850 and they make a huge difference. 60mph+ and 80mph+ is where it really shines. The programming is almost 20 years old and to maximize the higher octane, the chips do help. Since that is the only 850i you ever drove, and it was leaking oil, apparently needs cats, and is imported, I wouldn't judge the 850i acceleration unless you have a good example under your hands. You are right though, it is solid, no wind noise, and if not careful...the speed does climb fast.
    Brandon J

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    Paul - the numbers for the regular V12 in the 850 are not impressive - it's the CSI that is fast.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brandon J View Post
    All of this is true. I installed engine and transmission chips in the 850 and they make a huge difference. 60mph+ and 80mph+ is where it really shines. The programming is almost 20 years old and to maximize the higher octane, the chips do help. Since that is the only 850i you ever drove, and it was leaking oil, apparently needs cats, and is imported, I wouldn't judge the 850i acceleration unless you have a good example under your hands. You are right though, it is solid, no wind noise, and if not careful...the speed does climb fast.
    When I drove it, it had regular octane in it and the engine bay didn't look very well mainted, however the interior was spotless...no sagging headliner, no ripped or overly worn leather seats. The radio had lost some pikels, but other than that, the interior and exterior were in very good condition.

    Don't get me wrong, the 850i that I drove wasn't all that slow, but with a good tune up, chip and gearbox swap, it would be much faster. And despite the loose inner tie-rod the car had fantastic steering and handling, very close to that of our E34 at those very fast speeds...(200).

    I find the older bmw's, such as the E30, E34, now E31 have better steering and feel than some of the E46's I've driven (330, 323, 325)


    BMW E34 1992 525i Touring

    RIP Touring...probably never going to drive you again...

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    Quote Originally Posted by repenttokyo View Post
    Paul - the numbers for the regular V12 in the 850 are not impressive - it's the CSI that is fast.
    i know but the regular v12 does have good torque figures and is not as bad as all that
    300 hp (DIN) or 296 hp (SAE) at 5,200 rpm and 332 lb/ft at 4,100 rpm is pretty good.!
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