charging woes part V "The Search for Spark"

[tim eh?]

I'm sorry for the many threads but I feel like the situation changes often enough to need a new thread. (+ I had to use the title)
That said, this is more of a 'character development' episode. Yesterday's old news is here.
Feel free to tune out... short end is I still don't know what's up and now I need to buy a battery.


I sure hope it's the battery...

I was misreading my receipt... 11/12/2007 would be a year ago tomorrow i guess, not december 11.

So i got a lift from a buddy and took the battery into autolectra where i bought it.
Last time I went (in my car) these guys told me they'd have to keep the battery for two days to charge it properly.

So the guy mutters something about the guarantee on these being maybe only 6 months, takes it to the back room and comes back in 2 minutes and tells me 'the battery is perfect'. So I ask for a readout or more details and I start hearing what I believe to be utter BS... fun...

After a lot of what I believe to be BS (including "...if that's the case then your alternator has damaged the battery", "...well if that's the case then the battery shouldn't test good on your machine.") the boss gets involved and after about a 10 minute discussion (at times bordering on heated) he throws his hands in the air and says "fine, you want to check it yourself?" so i say "ok" and after a pause and long stare he realizes he doesn't have much choice now and we go to the back where there's this guy in a workshop full of alternators and stuff in pieces.

He pulls out this little handheld battery tester and clips it on the battery, turns it on for around 5 seconds, and then points to the analog needle, which is wobbling at around 10.5V, just barely above the 'good' line and says "see? it's good."

So I ask what kind of current that thing is drawing and get a long stare "I don't know it doesn't say... look, the wires are red, it's working."

(sigh)"nothing's written on the back or anything?"

"no"

"can i see?"

so he flips it over and there's a plate on it that reads 100A battery tester.

"So you're testing a 540 amp battery with 100 amps for 10 seconds?"

"yes"

pause

(Boss-)"You know what I'm going to do, I'm going to give you your money back for this battery because I guarantee you if I just replace it you'll just be back in 3 months with the same problem."

"Works for me..."



So anyway, whether or not the battery is my problem, I get to go shopping for a new one now so I'll find out soon enough. I don't want to mess around with the battery pan so I think I'll get the 94R one, I think that's the biggest dimensions that will fit. Maybe one with a longer guarantee this time, whew that was close! Thanks guys, without the guidance I've had here there is no way I would have been able to pursue that as far as I did. I should say I believe the boss truly believed the battery was good, and I will feel bad if it turns out to be something else.



Let's see, that's 3 alternators, 3 batteries, 2 ihkrs, 2 soon to be 3 clusterboards... I wonder what's for dessert? (...starter maybe?)



tbc...

[Tiger]

You got your money back? Cool. Stick with name brand battery. Just check if the 49 battery will fit in your battery tray. I don't see why not... what is your actual battery tray size?

[tim eh?]

You got your money back? Cool. Stick with name brand battery. Just check if the 49 battery will fit in your battery tray. I don't see why not... what is your actual battery tray size?

yep - full refund the day before the warrantee expired, howzat?

i will feel bad if it's not the problem, i already feel bad about the 3 alternators.



as you can see, there is not a lot of room for expansion. there is zero room towards the rear (of the car, + side of battery), the holes for the bracket towards the front would fit a battery precisely 35mm longer, and I think there is room for a taller battery but not a whole lot.

really, i'm pretty sure anything even slightly bigger than the 94R would be a giant pain to fit. i don't think i have much of a choice.

i think i will buy from canadian tire... 4 year guarantee, hassle-free returns. knowing my car, i'd rather have a mediocre battery i can return than a good one i can't.


edit- wait... i'm on my 4th alternator! pretty soon i'm gonna stop feelin that love when i walk in the door...


i really don't want to do a battery pan refit...

[Ross]

I'm sorry for the many threads but I feel like the situation changes often enough to need a new thread. (+ I had to use the title)
That said, this is more of a 'character development' episode. Yesterday's old news is here.
Feel free to tune out... short end is I still don't know what's up and now I need to buy a battery.


I sure hope it's the battery...

I was misreading my receipt... 11/12/2007 would be a year ago tomorrow i guess, not december 11.

So i got a lift from a buddy and took the battery into autolectra where i bought it.
Last time I went (in my car) these guys told me they'd have to keep the battery for two days to charge it properly.

So the guy mutters something about the guarantee on these being maybe only 6 months, takes it to the back room and comes back in 2 minutes and tells me 'the battery is perfect'. So I ask for a readout or more details and I start hearing what I believe to be utter BS... fun...

After a lot of what I believe to be BS (including "...if that's the case then your alternator has damaged the battery", "...well if that's the case then the battery shouldn't test good on your machine.") the boss gets involved and after about a 10 minute discussion (at times bordering on heated) he throws his hands in the air and says "fine, you want to check it yourself?" so i say "ok" and after a pause and long stare he realizes he doesn't have much choice now and we go to the back where there's this guy in a workshop full of alternators and stuff in pieces.

He pulls out this little handheld battery tester and clips it on the battery, turns it on for around 5 seconds, and then points to the analog needle, which is wobbling at around 10.5V, just barely above the 'good' line and says "see? it's good."

So I ask what kind of current that thing is drawing and get a long stare "I don't know it doesn't say... look, the wires are red, it's working."

(sigh)"nothing's written on the back or anything?"

"no"

"can i see?"

so he flips it over and there's a plate on it that reads 100A battery tester.

"So you're testing a 540 amp battery with 100 amps for 10 seconds?"

"yes"

pause

(Boss-)"You know what I'm going to do, I'm going to give you your money back for this battery because I guarantee you if I just replace it you'll just be back in 3 months with the same problem."

"Works for me..."



So anyway, whether or not the battery is my problem, I get to go shopping for a new one now so I'll find out soon enough. I don't want to mess around with the battery pan so I think I'll get the 94R one, I think that's the biggest dimensions that will fit. Maybe one with a longer guarantee this time, whew that was close! Thanks guys, without the guidance I've had here there is no way I would have been able to pursue that as far as I did. I should say I believe the boss truly believed the battery was good, and I will feel bad if it turns out to be something else.



Let's see, that's 3 alternators, 3 batteries, 2 ihkrs, 2 soon to be 3 clusterboards... I wonder what's for dessert? (...starter maybe?)



tbc...

(Boss-)"You know what I'm going to do, I'm going to give you your money back for this battery because I guarantee you if I just replace it you'll just be back in 3 months with the same problem."

Translation: We haven't a clue what we are doing, are accustomed to taking the customers money without accountability and are not clever enough to ******** our way out of this. It is preferrable to refund your money rather than admit this.

As much as I loathe chain auto parts stores auto zone has a decent product and warranty. Wal Mart's battery is also a good one but selection is very limited.

[Paul in NZ]

Your ten minute trip with all your electrical loads would tax any charging system..its that simple .Get the best battery you can get that is the proper size.See if you get the 150 amp alternator too next time

[tim eh?]

(Boss-)"You know what I'm going to do, I'm going to give you your money back for this battery because I guarantee you if I just replace it you'll just be back in 3 months with the same problem."

Translation: We haven't a clue what we are doing, are accustomed to taking the customers money without accountability and are not clever enough to ******** our way out of this. It is preferrable to refund your money rather than admit this.

As much as I loathe chain auto parts stores auto zone has a decent product and warranty. Wal Mart's battery is also a good one but selection is very limited.

I agree with your translation, I don't hold it against them and I hope the problem really is the battery.

But I think it was ridiculous that first they say they need it for 2 days (!) to charge it properly for the test, then when I said (this is the first time I was there) no way they said maybe in four hours but they'd be happy to do it, and then when I actually get a ride and go there to take them up on it they don't even spend 5 minutes with it. And then they tell me I don't know what I'm talking about there's no way it's the battery but they can't even tell me how many amps they tested it with.

here's a good bit i forgot...

Boss- "This is the tester the company sends us."

LOL it was a motomaster! (generic canadian tire, probably your autozone equivalent)

edit - here's a pic of the exact tester i found on their website

[Tiger]

Heck, I got a digital version one of that. As for WalMart battery... don't... the warranty and pro-rate are non existent.

[tim eh?]

check out this thread

and this one

first op stopped being active just afterwards, second op hasn't been around since june. (...d'oh)

Well after all this, it turns out i am a moron. The belt was on wrong, going over the idler pulley next to the alternator instead of under it. The belt was loose, but not squealing. It is also much easier to get the belt on this way If anyone has a random problem like this, make sure to check the belt routing, it is far too easy to overlook!

ok... wtf... belt routing? omg... i made my mechanic check it even though he didn't want to. i have installed 3 alternators badly? hmmm.... guess i won't make that pit crew... this is all speculation mind you...

i had actually seen this thread before but hadn't come across the answer it is well-hidden. ferret clued me in...

must check belt... omg that would be so unbeleivable... (but awesome at the same time) i think i will also triple check my battery cables for ' crunchiness '

[Tiger]

Tim... gotta stop this problem!

1. Belt tensioner fault. Not tight enough would cause problem.

2. Bad ground cable at the battery and starter.

3. Bad alternator... Eliminated

4. Bad battery... Will be eliminated

5. Bad starter...

6. Bad fusible link?...

[Ferret]

Hmm, I was wondering if you were going to go for a 'search for spark' title or not with your next thread.

If a 100A tester is just wobbling on the good line there could be a problem. Though! I'd be pretty sure its guage is calibrated against specific voltages at 100A pull.

Regardless you're making some progress now.

When you go shopping for a new battery, here's a tip.

The 35mm difference in the battery sizes needs *no* adjustment, you just push the locking plate upto the next bolt hole. When you're shopping for your next battery unbolt the battery tray out of your engine bay and take it with you! (It's like 2 or 3 10/13mm bolts) The guys wherever you go will be happy to let you upsell yourself to a bigger battery