Am I being scammed?

[shurton]

I posted this on another forum, and I thought I'd check here for opinions as well.
I took my 540 to an indy shop where i've gotten great service in the past, and who has a great reputation overall. I had the upper/lower control arms replaced as well as all new front brakes.
So they call me up the next day and say they have bad news.
They said that after an oil change there can be an air bubble in the system causing a brief point where the oil pressure is low, and something about a lack of oil pressure for the chain tensioner causing the camshaft to be off by a few degrees causing the piston in cylinder 7 to hit the valve. They said this is rare, but can happen on an older car. They said they will have to do a full valve service, I assumed a head rebuild. They said they would only charge me for the parts ($1800cdn) and would not charge me anything for the 3 days of labor involved.
They called me a couple of days later and said a chip from the piston got in the cylinder and scoured it, so now they are replacing the whole engine. They got me a '95 Alusil M60 with only 110,000 km on it. There was no discussion about charging me anything for the engine.
The funny thing is we never even discussed an oil change to begin with. The only work I authorized didn't even require opening the hood.

Has anyone heard of anything like this happening before? Is this even remotely possible? Evertyhing I've heard so far is that their story is BS.
I was gonna call BS on their story and try and get out of paying for the head rebuild, but now I'm not sure thats gonna fly with a full engine swap.
I'm already in for $2k on the control arms and brakes, without even getting into the engine stuff.
Any opinions would be greatly appreciated....

[Tiger]

On the V8, there is a common problem of oil pump bolt going loose and the oil pressure drops... but no one here ever had engine damage even with their low oil pressure.

The fact that you did not authorize oil change is already the shop owner's liability. Their business insurance liability will cover this damage with no cost to you. I am not sure how it works in Canada but if like US... all business need to be insured.

[repenttokyo]

sounds really shifty to me, man.

[Dave M]

What the???????? You took the car in for control arms and brakes, which cost what I consider to be an absurd $2000 and now they're replacing the engine. Does the owner have an expensive habit to feed? Not sure where to start.

Regardless of the plausibility of the scenario the describe, where do they get off going ahead with these minor repairs. Why would you need an excuse to get out of paying for repairs you didn't authorize (M60 transplant????). Maybe they mixed up your car with someone else's

Please tell me this is a joke. Even the $2000 for front end work has me confused. Is that possible? I've never paid a shop for this stuff, wow. Playing by their rules, you'll have virtually bought another e34 by the time you're done paying these artists. I'll be watching to see what happens.

Dave

[Zeuk in Oz]

I agree with Dave.

If they were not asked to change the oil, they owe you a NEW engine, IMHO.

Is there consumer legislation where you are ? Contact them and see what can be done.

Unbelievable !

ps : Don't pay them a cent !

[shurton]

What the???????? You took the car in for control arms and brakes, which cost what I consider to be an absurd $2000 and now they're replacing the engine. Does the owner have an expensive habit to feed? Not sure where to start.

Regardless of the plausibility of the scenario the describe, where do they get off going ahead with these minor repairs. Why would you need an excuse to get out of paying for repairs you didn't authorize (M60 transplant????). Maybe they mixed up your car with someone else's

Please tell me this is a joke. Even the $2000 for front end work has me confused. Is that possible? I've never paid a shop for this stuff, wow. Playing by their rules, you'll have virtually bought another e34 by the time you're done paying these artists. I'll be watching to see what happens.

Dave

The brake job was rotors, pads and calipers, so I think parts alone was around $1k. I had them install upper and lower control arms, but I supplied the parts, so I think that's probably $1800 Canadian total. I wasn't buying the oil change bs story initially, but I wasn't sure. Not sure what they were doing changing the e oil anyway. Maybe some yahoo took it for a drive after the brake and suspension work and fried my engine. I don't know how that could've happened either... Any theories?
They've had my car 2 1/2 weeks, and I get it back this week, so we'll see what they are gonna try to charge me. Of course I dont want to pay for anything beyond the work I asked for. They are taking some responsibility because when they were talking head rebuild, they were gonna charge me parts only. Then when they figured I needed a new engine they sourced it and brought it in before speaking to me, so they are not expecting me to pay for that. From the response i'm getting from people, it sounds like I shouldn't be paying anything for the engine work. Actually I'm kind of shocked that they tried to feed me that bs story about the oil change, this is a very respected BMW/Mercedes shop thats been in business for 30 years, and it takes 2 weeks just to get your car in there.
Thanks for the reply, I'll let you know how it goes later this week.

[Dave M]

Very strange situation. The most intriguing part is the fact they would offer to do the head work for free (parts are a relatively minor component to a head re-furbish). This inticates an admission of fault to me. If this is the case, why they wouldn't simply admit guilt is beyond me. Anyhow, a few things remain clear.

They FUBAR'ed your engine

They need to make good

You shouldn't pay a penny more than your overpriced brake and front end job cost (sorry, I can't imagine shelling out that much). NO parts, NO labour, Not your fault.

Oh, out of interest, why new calipers? Likely the reason your bill is aleady so high. Best of luck with it, welcome to the board,

Dave

[Dave M]

I just re-read their explanation of the problem and I've certainly never heard that one. I will not claim to know scads about engines, especially the M60. There are mant others here with boatloads more experience, but I know enough to have some serious reservations.

First, there is always a brief moment when oil pressure is low, namely every single time you start the vehicle. It takes a few seconds to circulate oil throughout the engine.

Second, what "system" are they speaking of? Behind the timing case cover(s), the timing chains are not subject to lack of oil due to freaking bubbles are they?? Its a pretty simple system of self lubrication.

Third, the very robust, self lubricating, bubble-free chains are connected to timing sprockets in such a way that a lack of lubrication to the chain will not affect timing. A lack of lubrication to the head(s) could definately cause damage, but this is not part of their story.

I you're relaying their story acurately, I have a very hard time beleiving it. And whats up with "this is rare, but can happen on an older car". Its frusrating me as it makes no sense. Someone renew my faith and explain to me how this can be.

Sorry about the rant, I despise con-artists.

Dave

[repenttokyo]

For the original poster, you should demand from the garage the price of a brand new engine, and the price to have engine installed, and then take that money and go to a new garage.

[Podmore]

Boyoboy, what a story! Never heard of timing chain tensioners held in place with oil pressure - as pointed out in another reply, on start-up there is virtually no oil pressure for a couple of engine revolutions, seems that not only 'older' engines would go out to lunch if that was the case. I'm not familiar with the internals of the M60 but in most engines the tensioner is a spring-loaded jobbie that keeps constant pressure on the chain, irrespective of oil pressure.
My guess is their apprentice took your car for a burn and blew it up ......
Ask to see your original engine.
Don't pay a penny for anything to do with the engine.
And I'd have to ask also, why new calipers? Phew!!!