Fuel pump/starting problem for the electricians and experts

[Bill H.]

or what?

Been there done that.

I just removed the plugs for all the coils, bolts keeping the manifold on the block, bracket bolts underneath the manifold (at great cost to my sanity), vacuum hoses, air tubes for the throttle body, and for the alternator, and then I lifted that cursed intake manifold. I followed the sensor wiring into the heart of the beast and wiggled one hand in there to pull the connector from its bracket. But I had to get two pairs of pliers to separate the plug.

Then I tested contacts 1 and 2 to find 700,000 ohms of resistance. When I turned the engine over it did nothing . . . not even a hint of movement.

I will order my new sensor tomorrow and it will probably arrive on Monday or Tuesday.

Do I need to buy new gaskets for the intake manifold? The old ones look to be in very good shape.

I will get the VIN number to check on the correct year.

Do I need to coils or can I wait a paycheck or two?

This weekend I will be on Mackinaw Island soaking up some horse manure odor. I'll let you know if the sensor fixes the problem.

[azale]

Bill H.: The car is not running yet. I had my friend order the part on Satuday (while I was touring Fort Colonial Michilimackinac) from Autohausaz.com and they couldn't ship it until Monday (2 day - can you believe that UPS ground gets from AZ to HI before it gets from AZ to MI). So today I should have received it today but my wife wasn't there to pick it up so I have to stop by the UPS distribution warehouse tonight between 7:45p and 8:45p. I don't finish with church youth group until 8:15p, it's about a 25 minute drive, and I was supposed to meet with my Pastor to talk about a new bus we are considering. I'll figure some way to get it tonight and then my dad and I will try to install it before Law & Order. I forgot to order intake gaskets so I called Monday and emailed autohaus to get them added to the order but they couldn't include them in time. They cost 3 times as much around here ($36 total) so I was going to wait to change them until my next order from autohaus (probably coils next month or so). The gaskets really are in great shape. They are perfectly formed and still a vibrant bright blue. I'll look over the previous owner's documentation to double check when he last changed them. Is that going to ruin my car?

Mackinaw was forgettable as always. I say, keep the horses but allow electric carts, so the smell isn't so bad. One section of road on the way to the condo was completely drenched in horse feces and urine for a quarter mile and that is no exaggeration. I also saw Somewhere in Time for the first time: too many logical gaps for my taste.

I am familiar with the yugo accident but I try not to mention it to my wife, who is terrified of bridges. I just love the metal grate inside lanes. There is something exciting about driving 100' above water and being able to look down at it. On the ferry ride back from the island I was telling my wife that ferry boats are unsafe which is why I always choose to stand on the top deck, and then we found out about the disaster on Lake George that night . . . very sad.

I probably could have just removed the fuel rail and the rail with the electronics but I didn't know how to remove the injectors. So I just lifted both rails, injectors, and all the electronics.

If you don't hear from me tonight, I was in a sour mood because I didn't get my part.

[SRR2]

Some of the camshaft sensors use Hall Effect devices. Those would be the ones that crap out so often that a lot of E39 owners carry spares in the trunk. I'm not kidding.

[azale]

It wouldn't start.

I tested the new sensor versus the old sensor and there was a HUGE difference in resistance. I installed it and put everything back together (the intake gaskets are actually red, but still vibrant, and they were replaced in february). I replaced all the hoses and wires but I couldn't get the bolts up through the V shaped bracket into the intake manifold. I think I actually lost both bolts in the process (I lost one and my dad lost the other). I visually checked all the fuses and relays. Then I cranked it.

The battery was empty so I jumped it and put the cables in the engine compartment for hardly any noticable charge, then I jumped it straight to the battery. I let it charge for a grand total of 30 minutes but I was trying to start it off and on. The last time I tried to start it the engine was turning over fast enough (to me). I will trickle charge it all day tomorrow and I'll let you know what happens tomorrow night. If it doesn't start I guess it's back to the drawing board. I'll check for spark and fuel again.

So how do I remove the injectors? Any other ideas?

[stevebuk]

Sorry to hear that hasn't fixed the problem.

When you crank the engine with the spark plugs removed you should get a strong smell of petrol, if not there's definately a fuel delivery problem.

The first thing I would do is remove the connector to the engine management unit and check with the multi-meter that you are getting a continuous 12 volt supply to pin 26 and when the ignition is on at pins 48 and 54. If that is good then with a scope (you may be able to use your multimeter) check for pulses to one of the ignition coils say pin 1 and also check for injection pulses at say pin 5. If that is good I would check for pulses at the other coils (pins 2 3 29 30 31) and injectors (pins 6 22 23 33 50). If all these are ok, the fuel pump is running and you're getting pulses from the CPS then in theory the car should start.

[azale]

When you crank the engine with the spark plugs removed you should get a strong smell of petrol, if not there's definately a fuel delivery problem.

I definitely didn't get that smell before but I will pull all the plugs and do a quick smell test first thing.

The first thing I would do is remove the connector to the engine management unit and check with the multi-meter that you are getting a continuous 12 volt supply to pin 26 . . .

Does this mean check in the harness socket number 26 or the pin itself?

. . . and when the ignition is on at pins 48 and 54 . . .

Is this for the pins or the sockets in the harness?

I guess my question is, does power for the computer come from he harness or is there a wire underneath that I'm not seeing? Also, I assume my computer is the connected to the harness located closest to the windshield. What is the other big harness for (looks like it goes straight to the fuse box)? These may sound like elementary questions but at this point in I obviously can't take anything for granted.

Let me emphasize that the main relay I replaced was definitely not clicking properly and the sensor I just replaced was totally hosed. There is no doubt in my mind.

I'm still waiting on my second set of TIS CDs and did I mention that my car has developed a small trans leak while sitting in a garage for the last 3.5 weeks?

[stevebuk]

I also didn't get that smell when my relay had died!

The pins I refer to are the plug that connects to the engine management unit, yes it is the one closest to the windshield, all connections to the management unit are through the single large plug. Slacken the cross head screw in the plug and unplug it from the management unit. Twist it around and make all voltage readings between the plug (you need a small tipped test lead for some of them) and a good earth. The pins are logically numbered - http://www.carsoft.ru/avtorepair/bmw...0.0/index.html

Personally I don't find TIS / ETK to be terribly helpful most of the time - did you download the Bentley manual? - there were a couple of links here recently for a free download!!

Providing you're getting all the positive supplies and pulses from the cps, the outputs from the control unit (injector and coil) are pulsing and fuel is being pumped it should start, the rest of the sensors generally affect how it runs once it has started.

ETA - It does have oil in the sump? If not some models will inhibit engine firing!

Also you may as well leave the plugs out until cranking it gives you a petrol smell, cranking without the plugs in will make the battery last a lot longer!

[azale]

Do I need to power the DME somehow to check to see if the injector/ingnition pins are pulsing?

I'll double check everything tonight.

Just downloaded the manual. I'll buy it on eBay if the price is ever reasonable.

[stevebuk]

To check the pulsing of the injectors / spark plugs the easiest way is to put the plug back in to the engine control unit and connect the scope / meter to the (disconnected) coil plug and injector connection - sorry for the confusion!

However the petrol smell should tell you if the injectors are pulsing with the plugs and coil units removed.

I have in the past added an extra length of HT lead from one of the spark plugs to a removed but connected coil unit - I don't know if you've seen the Gunson colortune device, it's a sort of glass spark plug that lets you see the colour of the cylinder combustion (orange is too rich, white too weak and blue is correct) but the lead that came with that was good for extending the connection between a removed coil and plug. I could then connect a neon HT tester between the coil and the spark plug and watch it flash.

[Javier]

I tested the new sensor versus the old sensor and there was a HUGE difference in resistance.


Was the resistance about 1.3 Kohm? Was the sensor the exact replacement? though they look similar, they are not all the same. There is a groove in the sensor that should be aligned with the tooth wheel to pick up the position of the shaft.

I verified it once in an M42 we were trying to debug the CPS, and borrowed a similar one, fine resistance measure, but when installed was not working until we un-screw it and rotate it to match the grove position of the original sensor, and it made the difference.

Javier