experiences with oversteer

[rob101]

hello everyone,

This morning i had a bit of a wet road power oversteer incident, wasn't that hard to catch but the people sitting at the bus stop probably thought i was a maniac. It got me thinking the e34 seems fairly well balanced, although it did snap back a bit when i countersteered it think that was due to the open diff. There was also another time in the wet were i the seemed to oversteer a bit exiting a roundabout here which has shocklingly off camber ends to it (you see that roundabout is more like an oval) at that time i caught it easily as well. Since i can't really drive very well i figure, the e34 must be a fairly well balanced car although it helps that i have r17/45 235s all round. What does the board think and do other people have similar sideways experiences?

Rob

[liquidtiger720]

When I was about 16, I was still learning how to drive...in my e34. I guess I had bald tires on, and I gave the car too much gas off the line and into a turn. The rear end snapped out...and I paniced, over corrected which snapped it back the other way and did the same thing. I found myself heading straight toward a curb, but I somehow got it under control to avoid it. So yea...there's oversteer alright but ever since then I've found it easy to control.

[Jay 535i]

I do that all the time -- on purpose, mind you. I love flicking the tail out just a bit. Not sideways action, but just a little oversteer like you're describing to keep things interesting. The M30 has just enough low-down torque to break things away nicely at low speeds on a wet road.

The E34 is known as being one of the most controllable and progressive sliders ever made. It certainly flatters the driver, and makes these kinds of antics relatively safe.

The bigger rubber you have would actually make the car HARDER to control in this situation, not easier. The extra grip raises the stakes and makes for a less progressive transition into and out of oversteer. The agressive "snap" you mentioned is probably down to that rubber.

[angrypancake]

My first sideways experience ended up with a tree and a totalled 525im. Since then I've learned to control those sideways times, mostly by practicing in parking lots at 4am in the snow. It can be fun if you know what youre doing, but terribly dangerous if you dont. The e34 is very well balanced, and some slight oversteer can make things interesting.

[Jeff N.]

All things considered, the E34 is easier to control in an oversteer situation than a lot of cars. Things is has going for it include:

- longer wheelbase
- reasonable weight balance front to rear
- not a ridiculous amount of power

In the dry, it's pretty hard with these cars to get power oversteer. Just too much tire, weight and not enough power (insert comment from Martin here about Jeff's cam). You can get what's called trailing throttle oversteer - that's the effect when in a corner and you lift the throttle slightly, the tail steps out and the car rotates to the inside of the corner. Trailing throttle is dangerous in that it's what will typically cause a driver to spin to the inside of a turn when you overcook the entry to a turn (slow in, fast out...be safe, huh?)

Rob, what likely got your car to snap back is not the open diffy. I suspect when the tail rotated out in the wet, it may have gone further than you expected. Typical driver response to that is to abruptly lift the throttle to stop power oversteer. When done abruptly, this will stop the oversteer while at the same time shifting all the weight forward which digs in front tires and unloads the rear leading to the snap back the other direction. Next time, try breathing just a bit off the throttle vs. a full lift. This should be more effective. (I'd really suggest a drivers school and try this on a wetted down skid pad - harmless place to sort all this out vs. the street).

More than oversteer, in stock form, the E34 plows like pig with understeer. Understeer of course is a much safer handling tendency than oversteer because the natural driver reaction is also the correct response to recover the car. It's when you start modding it up that the E34 gets a little twitchy. But twitchy is very relative to what it could be - lots of cars are famous for being a lot worse.

So..yup...all things considered, the E34 is a pretty smooth and safe ride.

[rob101]

I am not really sure if i backed off completely, but i think i may have hit a dry patch, because i heard your usual no traction in the wet noise which is fairly quiet then the tyre started to squeel like it had picked up on dry road. It oversteered mainly because i was in first gear hehe but i probably only gave it 3/4 throttle. You know, one of those places on the way to work where you just can't help yourself. seem to have alot of wet weather antics around that spot. i have lost traction in my e28 in the wet alot around there, but that was fortunately going in a straight line.

All things considered, the E34 is easier to control in an oversteer situation than a lot of cars. Things is has going for it include:

- longer wheelbase
- reasonable weight balance front to rear
- not a ridiculous amount of power

In the dry, it's pretty hard with these cars to get power oversteer. Just too much tire, weight and not enough power. You can get what's called trailing throttle oversteer - that's the effect when in a corner and you lift the throttle slightly, the tail steps out and the car rotates to the inside of the corner. Trailing throttle is dangerous in that it's what will typically cause a driver to spin when you overcook the entry to a turn (slow in, fast out...be safe, huh?)

Rob, what likely got your car to snap back is not the open diffy. I suspect when the tail rotated out in the wet, it may have gone further than you expected. Typical driver response to that is to abruptly lift the throttle to stop power oversteer. When done abruptly, this will stop the oversteer while at the same time shifting all the weight forward which unloads the rear leading to the snap back the other direction. (trailing thottle situation). Next time, try breathing just a bit off the throttle vs. a full lift. This should be more effective. (I'd really suggest a drivers school and try this on a wetted down skid pad - harmless place to sort all this out vs. the street).

More than oversteer, in stock form, the E34 plows like pig with understeer. Understeer of course is a much safer handling tendency than oversteer because the natural driver reaction is also the correct response to recover the car. It's when you start modding it up that the E34 gets a little twitchy. But twitchy is very relative to what it could be - lots of cars are famous for being a lot worse.

So..yup...all things considered, the E34 is a pretty smooth and safe ride.

[SC David]

I've had some fun experiences with oversteer. My first one resulted in me countersteering too hard and having the car snap back the other direction, and hit a curb going about 3mph. Minimal paint damage as I grazed a chainlink fence. No one was around, but I was still embarrased. That scared me into driving slowly during the rain. Since then I've been more careful and have learned how to properly countersteer.

[Alexlind123]

Normally, i can easily initiate safe and controlled power oversteer upon corner exit when that is the objective in mind. Once however, it caught be by surprise and i lifted off the throttle and went a little more into a parking lot that i had planned on; it turned out fine though i guess im just lucky the parking lot was there. The point is, when i want the car to do something, it will do it without hesitation and in a safe and predictable manner, even on dry pavement. I have never experienced any sort of understeer even on gravel, where it would be most noticable. This could be due in part to the fact that my suspension is not entirely stock.

[Zeuk in Oz]

Rob, reading between the lines I get the impression that this episode took you a little by surprise and has unsettled you.

May I suggest that you investigate the availability of advanced driving courses in Brisbane - BMW even hold them at Queensland Raceway - Advanced 1 costs $660 for the day using their cars. See www.bmw.com.au for details.

More experience will make you more able to adapt appropriately the next time something like this happens.

Alternatively, find a dusty paddock somewhere and have some fun getting to know your car.

[rob101]

It was scary and exciting at the same time lol, I am not that unsettled but i think i will have to do some kind of course as something like this could happen one day when i don't expect it ie when i am in torrential downpour traveling home on the freeway, which happens more than you think it would in brisbane. yeah i have read up on the BMW courses before mmmmmmm e46 325i mmmm. Queensland BMW club goes to an advanced course as well but you take your own car and it only costs around 150.

Rob, reading between the lines I get the impression that this episode took you a little by surprise and has unsettled you.

May I suggest that you investigate the availability of advanced driving courses in Brisbane - BMW even hold them at Queensland Raceway - Advanced 1 costs $660 for the day using their cars. See www.bmw.com.au for details.

More experience will make you more able to adapt appropriately the next time something like this happens.

Alternatively, find a dusty paddock somewhere and have some fun getting to know your car.