Ok, now I am really confused about CHF 11s

[Dick Schneiders]

Never having seen the stuff (my 1991 525i's use CHF 7.1) I had always thought that the fully synthetic power steering fluid was blue, from what I had read. Several of you on this board corrected me and convinced me that it was also green, like the semi-synthetic 7.1.

However, there is a question that just appeared on Roadflea, from somebody that has some CHF 11s to put into his touring E34, and he says it is *blue*, like I thought. His problem has to do with what is currently in his car isn't blue, but a burnt amber, as he described it.

Anyway, which is it - blue or green? Can there be more than one color of CHF 11s? That wouldn't make much sense.

It doesn't really matter to me, as I won't ever need to use it, but I would like to know so that I don't make wrong statements in my comments on these boards. I often get into discussions about power steering fluid for E34's, since I have always used CHF 7.1 in one of my 1991 525i's and automatic transmission fluid (ATF) in the other, with no problems in either car. This is interesting to those that don't want to spend the bucks for the very expensive CHF but are leery of trying anything else. My opinion is that the CHF is only necessary for cars that have self leveling suspension, as the fluid is used for both.

Have any of you that convinced me that CHF 11s is green actually ever seen it? Or are you color blind? :-)

Thanks,

Dick Schneiders

[DrewZ]

I've seen 11s with my own eyes, and it's always been green.

Never having seen the stuff (my 1991 525i's use CHF 7.1) I had always thought that the fully synthetic power steering fluid was blue, from what I had read. Several of you on this board corrected me and convinced me that it was also green, like the semi-synthetic 7.1.

However, there is a question that just appeared on Roadflea, from somebody that has some CHF 11s to put into his touring E34, and he says it is *blue*, like I thought. His problem has to do with what is currently in his car isn't blue, but a burnt amber, as he described it.

Anyway, which is it - blue or green? Can there be more than one color of CHF 11s? That wouldn't make much sense.

It doesn't really matter to me, as I won't ever need to use it, but I would like to know so that I don't make wrong statements in my comments on these boards. I often get into discussions about power steering fluid for E34's, since I have always used CHF 7.1 in one of my 1991 525i's and automatic transmission fluid (ATF) in the other, with no problems in either car. This is interesting to those that don't want to spend the bucks for the very expensive CHF but are leery of trying anything else. My opinion is that the CHF is only necessary for cars that have self leveling suspension, as the fluid is used for both.

Have any of you that convinced me that CHF 11s is green actually ever seen it? Or are you color blind? :-)

Thanks,

Dick Schneiders

[Unregistered]

Never having seen the stuff (my 1991 525i's use CHF 7.1) I had always thought that the fully synthetic power steering fluid was blue, from what I had read. Several of you on this board corrected me and convinced me that it was also green, like the semi-synthetic 7.1.

However, there is a question that just appeared on Roadflea, from somebody that has some CHF 11s to put into his touring E34, and he says it is *blue*, like I thought. His problem has to do with what is currently in his car isn't blue, but a burnt amber, as he described it.

Anyway, which is it - blue or green? Can there be more than one color of CHF 11s? That wouldn't make much sense.

It doesn't really matter to me, as I won't ever need to use it, but I would like to know so that I don't make wrong statements in my comments on these boards. I often get into discussions about power steering fluid for E34's, since I have always used CHF 7.1 in one of my 1991 525i's and automatic transmission fluid (ATF) in the other, with no problems in either car. This is interesting to those that don't want to spend the bucks for the very expensive CHF but are leery of trying anything else. My opinion is that the CHF is only necessary for cars that have self leveling suspension, as the fluid is used for both.

Have any of you that convinced me that CHF 11s is green actually ever seen it? Or are you color blind? :-)

Thanks,

Dick Schneiders

[Elekta]

burnt amber sounds like someone topped it up with ATF, in which case he needs it flushed asap. ATF is a power steering pump and hose killer

[Dick Schneiders]

And it, in the opinion of many, is fine for the non-touring cars. Cars without the self-levelling suspension shouldn't have any problems using ATF. One of my 1991 525i's had ATF in it when I bought it over 4 years ago and I continued to use it. I have had no problems with the power steering system and don't expect to. The 2nd 1991 525i I purchased 2 years ago had a green fluid in it, which I later found out was CHF 7.1. I am still using the CHF in that car. Both of my cars had CHF 7.1 on the label on the cap of the fluid container, but in my first car it was mostly rubbed off and I couldn't read what it said. Since the fluid was obviously ATF, I used that when I replaced the fluid.

In some E34's, ATF is the fluid of choice for the power steering. I don't remember which, but I have seen that stated in some manuals.

Dick Schneiders

burnt amber sounds like someone topped it up with ATF, in which case he needs it flushed asap. ATF is a power steering pump and hose killer

[Dick Schneiders]

"power steering fluid" on the container and is a clear or light yellow color. I would never recommend using this stuff in any BMW. I believe it is for Japanese and American cars.

Dick Schneiders

QUOTE=Dick Schneiders]And it, in the opinion of many, is fine for the non-touring cars. Cars without the self-levelling suspension shouldn't have any problems using ATF. One of my 1991 525i's had ATF in it when I bought it over 4 years ago and I continued to use it. I have had no problems with the power steering system and don't expect to. The 2nd 1991 525i I purchased 2 years ago had a green fluid in it, which I later found out was CHF 7.1. I am still using the CHF in that car. Both of my cars had CHF 7.1 on the label on the cap of the fluid container, but in my first car it was mostly rubbed off and I couldn't read what it said. Since the fluid was obviously ATF, I used that when I replaced the fluid.

In some E34's, ATF is the fluid of choice for the power steering. I don't remember which, but I have seen that stated in some manuals.

Dick Schneiders[/QUOTE]

[Douglas]

Hi Dick,

I'm the one who posted about the dark amber fluid in my ps resevoir on roadfly.

On the issue of color, I'm going to have to retract my statement about CH 11 being blue. It's not. It's closer to green. Arguably it's cyan, which is a light blue-green or aquamarine. But that said, I think it is fair to say that under most lighting conditions it is more green than blue. My bad.

On the issue of ATF being okay for non self leveling cars, I'm going to have to disagree about that. It appears that my old fluid was likely once clear, or close to clear. Now it is dark amber. Upon closer inspection of the fluid I find that it is full of fine black particles and small black chunks. This material is the rubber that the ATF has eroded from the seals and hoses. This is why, as I explained in my original posting, that the fluid smells more like old rubber tires, than anything else. I can only conclude that the ATF is highly erosive to rubber--at least to this kind of rubber in my e34's power steering system. Perhaps the rubber is thick enough and the system is tolerant enough to withstand this kind of erosion for years and still work adequately, but sooner or later the fluid will weaken the seals and hoses to the point of failure. When exactly will that happen? I may find out soon enough.

In short. ATF is not a substitute for CH 11. You may be able to get away with it for a while, maybe even for years, but eventually the system will fail.

Douglas

[Dick Schneiders]

Check out my response to you on Roadfly. What you had in the car is probably what *is* called "power steering fluid" but is very bad for BMW's. It is clear or light yellow in color. ATF is generally thought of as being ok for most E34's.

Thanks for your clarification on the color. Now I think I know why their is a confusion.

Dick Schneiders

Hi Dick,

I'm the one who posted about the dark amber fluid in my ps resevoir on roadfly.

On the issue of color, I'm going to have to retract my statement about CH 11 being blue. It's not. It's closer to green. Arguably it's cyan, which is a light blue-green or aquamarine. But that said, I think it is fair to say that under most lighting conditions it is more green than blue. My bad.

On the issue of ATF being okay for non self leveling cars, I'm going to have to disagree about that. It appears that my old fluid was likely once clear, or close to clear. Now it is dark amber. Upon closer inspection of the fluid I find that it is full of fine black particles and small black chunks. This material is the rubber that the ATF has eroded from the seals and hoses. This is why, as I explained in my original posting, that the fluid smells more like old rubber tires, than anything else. I can only conclude that the ATF is highly erosive to rubber--at least to this kind of rubber in my e34's power steering system. Perhaps the rubber is thick enough and the system is tolerant enough to withstand this kind of erosion for years and still work adequately, but sooner or later the fluid will weaken the seals and hoses to the point of failure. When exactly will that happen? I may find out soon enough.

In short. ATF is not a substitute for CH 11. You may be able to get away with it for a while, maybe even for years, but eventually the system will fail.

Douglas

[Phil Sanderson]

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