5HP30 (540i Auto Trans) Question...

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10-15-2007, 07:00 AM
MTechnik540i

5HP30 (540i Auto Trans) Question...

Hey fellows,

Trying to diagnose an issue with the transmission in the M-Sport. Well, for starters the present Transmission is a Remanufactured unit that the PO replaced back in 10/'02 @ 108k miles. Well, the car has ~185k Miles on it now, and newish Amsoil Synthetic fluid (Changed @ 7/'06 w/ 165k). Anyway, the fresh fluid seem to help somewhat, nothing hugely substantial. Just lately I've noticed a pretty distinct 'lag' between changes from R to D, D to R, or wherever. Accompanying this lag, just recently (During these shifts from R to D/etc) there's a point where it bogs down, and RPMs drop pretty significantly, like it wants to, essentially, stall out.

Wondering if anybody might have any clue what's going on, and what I might want to try.

...And, yes I know... :D

http://www.ncaudi.org/gallery/albums/ratedm/swap_it.jpg
10-15-2007, 07:46 AM
Tiger

Call Kirt Koeller.... don't email him... call him up. He would be happy to help you out. Sounds like a valve body issue to me.
10-15-2007, 09:48 AM
MTechnik540i

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tiger

Call Kirt Koeller.... don't email him... call him up. He would be happy to help you out. Sounds like a valve body issue to me.

Thanks for the contact, I'll do just that.
10-15-2007, 09:48 AM
MBXB

Same thing happened to me.
I changed fluid (Pennzoil Multi ATF), new filter (the FILTRAN from the local stealer), did the shogun reset.
It took a couple of days for the trans to relearn, but now it shifts smoothly and no lag.

The old fluid was still good and clear, but the filter was the old stule and the housing had collapsed and was concave instead of flat.
10-15-2007, 07:48 PM
MTechnik540i

Quote:

Originally Posted by MBXB

Same thing happened to me.
I changed fluid (Pennzoil Multi ATF), new filter (the FILTRAN from the local stealer), did the shogun reset.
It took a couple of days for the trans to relearn, but now it shifts smoothly and no lag.

The old fluid was still good and clear, but the filter was the old stule and the housing had collapsed and was concave instead of flat.

Spoke to Kirt today, and I'm going to try the Reset and see what comes of that.

I'll keep you guys posted.
10-16-2007, 06:06 PM
MTechnik540i

Quote:

Originally Posted by MTechnik540i

Spoke to Kirt today, and I'm going to try the Reset and see what comes of that.

I'll keep you guys posted.

Did the 'Hard Reset' today (Or, atleast I think we did). Had our trusted, local independent help us out and he explained that leaving it disconnected overnight was way overkill, and that only a few moments were needed to ground out to reset. So, we went about it this way and the results weren't what I'd hoped.

Things started out optimistic, as upshifts seemed to be quite a bit smoother than before. Even sliding it from D to R/etc. seem to be somewhat less dramatic, initially. Well, as things got warmer and I drove it a little longer the same symptoms started showing their ugly self again and, now it doesn't appear the Reset helped us out. I was going to give it a little while, and give it the chance to possibly 'learn.'

Anyway, at this point, I'd just like to confirm that you only need a few moments to properly perform the 'Hard Reset' and if that's true, if we should consider looking into the Valve Body update, which I'm not entirely sure this Reman Transmission had done to it....(Still trying to confirm it's a ZF Rebuild, and also if it even has the Valve Body update).

Any help is appreciated.
10-16-2007, 07:33 PM
shogun

Just to be sure, make the reset a bit longer, let's say 30 minutes, not a big deal.
Maybe you also ask your questions on the tranny forum of european transmissions where Kirt Koeller works
http://www.europeantransmissions.com/
10-16-2007, 08:06 PM
MTechnik540i

Quote:

Originally Posted by shogun

Just to be sure, make the reset a bit longer, let's say 30 minutes, not a big deal.
Maybe you also ask your questions on the tranny forum of european transmissions where Kirt Koeller works
http://www.europeantransmissions.com/

Thanks Shogun,

I went ahead and asked/posted. Kirt was most helpful on the phone, so I'll see what he says concerning this issue.

TIA,
10-16-2007, 08:59 PM
Tiger

Kirt is a great guy... he helped me out with my tranny problem... rebuilt my valve body. Do the Shogun's method and try driving as long as you can... it is not an overnight cure thing, but rather it takes time.
10-16-2007, 09:17 PM
shogun

I hope on that board not only "Herb" answers , which seems to be (maybe) a member of europeantransmissions.
Would be good to have such a board only for special problems on trannies and discussions among experts.

Similar to this forum for ECU and MOTRONIC special questions
http://www.bmwecu.org/
10-25-2007, 06:25 PM
MTechnik540i

Alrighty!

Well, to keep everyone up to date. Went ahead and did a proper 'Hard Reset' and left it unplugged overnight. Unfortunately, that didn't end up fixing anything so we're onto plan B.

Went ahead and removed the valve body and sent it to Kirt for a update/rebuild. It turns out that the valve body was updated during the Remanufacturing, only Kirt wasn't pleased with the test on the first Solenoid and went ahead and replaced them all. Anyway, Kirt seems to believe that was the smoking gun, I'll keep you fellows in the loop with if this finally fixes our issues.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MTechnik540i

Did the 'Hard Reset' today (Or, atleast I think we did). Had our trusted, local independent help us out and he explained that leaving it disconnected overnight was way overkill, and that only a few moments were needed to ground out to reset. So, we went about it this way and the results weren't what I'd hoped.

Things started out optimistic, as upshifts seemed to be quite a bit smoother than before. Even sliding it from D to R/etc. seem to be somewhat less dramatic, initially. Well, as things got warmer and I drove it a little longer the same symptoms started showing their ugly self again and, now it doesn't appear the Reset helped us out. I was going to give it a little while, and give it the chance to possibly 'learn.'

Anyway, at this point, I'd just like to confirm that you only need a few moments to properly perform the 'Hard Reset' and if that's true, if we should consider looking into the Valve Body update, which I'm not entirely sure this Reman Transmission had done to it....(Still trying to confirm it's a ZF Rebuild, and also if it even has the Valve Body update).

Any help is appreciated.
10-25-2007, 06:42 PM
bubba966

I lost reverse in my 540iA M-Sport a few months ago and in looking into what the problem was and found that these trannies have 2 common problems.

First one is the retaining clip on the reverse clutch packs breaks off the housing, and then the reverse clutch pack is no longer held together causing complete loss of reverse. (what happened to mine)

The second common problem is related to the valve body. Specifically the check ball in one of the fluid passages. The check ball gets worn down over time and gets sucked past the point where it's supposed to stop. The symptoms of this problem sound most like what you're experiencing. So your problem will most likely be gone with the valve body rebuild.
10-26-2007, 07:46 AM
MTechnik540i

Quote:

Originally Posted by bubba966

I lost reverse in my 540iA M-Sport a few months ago and in looking into what the problem was and found that these trannies have 2 common problems.

First one is the retaining clip on the reverse clutch packs breaks off the housing, and then the reverse clutch pack is no longer held together causing complete loss of reverse. (what happened to mine)

Expensive fix?

Thanks for the insight. BTW, Another Cosmos Black M-Sport!
10-26-2007, 06:03 PM
MTechnik540i

Plan B goes south...

Quote:

Originally Posted by MTechnik540i

Alrighty!

Well, to keep everyone up to date. Went ahead and did a proper 'Hard Reset' and left it unplugged overnight. Unfortunately, that didn't end up fixing anything so we're onto plan B.

Went ahead and removed the valve body and sent it to Kirt for a update/rebuild. It turns out that the valve body was updated during the Remanufacturing, only Kirt wasn't pleased with the test on the first Solenoid and went ahead and replaced them all. Anyway, Kirt seems to believe that was the smoking gun, I'll keep you fellows in the loop with if this finally fixes our issues.

Hey again folks,

Went to pick up the 540i today, and I must admit over a week and about $600-700 later, I was saying to myself 'this better fix this!.' Well, as normal, things start out promising, but just as always a few minutes into driving, when everything has reached temperature and the car is good and warm, the exact same issues start showing themselves again!

Needless to say, this is really frustrating. I suppose I'll be on the phone to Kirt again Monday, again, trying to figure out what's next.

So, if there's anything you guys can think of that I may want to check, please post away! I'm having to ask myself now, could this issue have nothing to do with the transmission at all.

TIA!
10-27-2007, 11:10 PM
MTechnik540i

Bump!
10-28-2007, 01:26 PM
bubba966

Quote:

Originally Posted by MTechnik540i

Expensive fix?

Thanks for the insight. BTW, Another Cosmos Black M-Sport!

I got a used tranny out of another Cosmos M-Sport auto from someone a slight bit North of San Francisco as he was pulling his out to do a 6 speed swap.

Cost me $1,400 installed as I didn't feel like installing it myself. I've had enough fun with auto trannies before, and these 5HP30's are huge...

What color interior do you have in your M-Sport? Took me 2 1/2 years to find a black/black auto as I've only found evidence of 3 of them existing.
10-28-2007, 01:31 PM
bubba966

Quote:

Originally Posted by MTechnik540i

Hey again folks,

Went to pick up the 540i today, and I must admit over a week and about $600-700 later, I was saying to myself 'this better fix this!.' Well, as normal, things start out promising, but just as always a few minutes into driving, when everything has reached temperature and the car is good and warm, the exact same issues start showing themselves again!

Needless to say, this is really frustrating. I suppose I'll be on the phone to Kirt again Monday, again, trying to figure out what's next.

So, if there's anything you guys can think of that I may want to check, please post away! I'm having to ask myself now, could this issue have nothing to do with the transmission at all.

TIA!

Did the valve body rebuild include new check balls? There's 2 of them that wear and cause problems like you're describing. Symptoms of check ball wear are the tranny not fully engaging reverse (will slowly back up on level surfaces), and also engaging both forward and reverse at the same time. It sounds like you've experienced the forward & reverse engaging problem.

When you loose the reverse clutch pack retaining clip you loose reverse imediately (like it popped out of gear) and it won't work at all.
10-28-2007, 03:50 PM
Tiger

Let me get this straight... you reinstalled the valve body and same issue came back? Then I'd say the seals in the tranny are gone... consult with Kirt again.
10-28-2007, 06:00 PM
MTechnik540i

@ Tiger: Yes, same issues are still showing themselves.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bubba966

Did the valve body rebuild include new check balls? There's 2 of them that wear and cause problems like you're describing. Symptoms of check ball wear are the tranny not fully engaging reverse (will slowly back up on level surfaces), and also engaging both forward and reverse at the same time. It sounds like you've experienced the forward & reverse engaging problem.

When you loose the reverse clutch pack retaining clip you loose reverse imediately (like it popped out of gear) and it won't work at all.

I'm going to ask about the Check Balls when I'm talking to Kirt tomorrow.

I'm assuming the Torque converter would be out of the question on these described problems? Up/Downshifts are still very smooth, almost unnoticeable.
10-28-2007, 10:26 PM
swenpro

i'm very curious to find out what you learn... I have had a hard shift from second to third during moderate acceleration and warm tranny ever since I bought my car (2 years).

So far I have done:
- hard reset
- valve body replaced (Kirt)
- complete remanufactured tranny replacement (Kirt)
- transmission cooler replaced (Kirt)
- valve body replaced... again (Kirt)
- and have tested different ECUs, Transmission control modules, and MAF

Mucho $$$ later I haven't felt any change whatsoever, aaaah! Obviously its not the tranny, but what the problem is, I have no idea. I know my symptoms aren't the same as yours, but just a heads up... valve body isn't the answer to all 5HP30 questions, mine's been replaced three times! :/
10-29-2007, 12:03 AM
MTechnik540i

Quote:

Originally Posted by swenpro

i'm very curious to find out what you learn... I have had a hard shift from second to third during moderate acceleration and warm tranny ever since I bought my car (2 years).

So far I have done:
- hard reset
- valve body replaced (Kirt)
- complete remanufactured tranny replacement (Kirt)
- transmission cooler replaced (Kirt)
- valve body replaced... again (Kirt)
- and have tested different ECUs, Transmission control modules, and MAF

Mucho $$$ later I haven't felt any change whatsoever, aaaah! Obviously its not the tranny, but what the problem is, I have no idea. I know my symptoms aren't the same as yours, but just a heads up... valve body isn't the answer to all 5HP30 questions, mine's been replaced three times! :/

Gees!! If it ever comes to this point, I can tell you one thing...There won't be another 5HP30 in there for long!
10-29-2007, 05:15 PM
Tiger

This is really wierd as you said that tranny is a rebuilt unit... makes me wonder if it is really tranny trouble... have you check the ground cable... make sure the wire is very clean bare metal... contacting the clean bare metal of the tranny housing?

I am thinking... there usually is a ground cable... big one attached to the tranny housing by the starter... I know there is also the wire harness too... have that been checked to see if it is clean or full of filth... Either way... it does affect the reading by the computer... and cause electronic problems. Maybe this is it.
10-29-2007, 08:35 PM
MTechnik540i

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tiger

This is really wierd as you said that tranny is a rebuilt unit... makes me wonder if it is really tranny trouble... have you check the ground cable... make sure the wire is very clean bare metal... contacting the clean bare metal of the tranny housing?

I am thinking... there usually is a ground cable... big one attached to the tranny housing by the starter... I know there is also the wire harness too... have that been checked to see if it is clean or full of filth... Either way... it does affect the reading by the computer... and cause electronic problems. Maybe this is it.

Yeah, Kirt and I were speaking about this subject during our conversation this afternoon, so this is Plan C. Check these connections, and then some switch he was talking about. If these two things don't fix our trouble, Kirt seems to think it's time for another unit....In which case *waves* Good-bye 5HP30.

I'll keep you folks posted, thanks again for your help.