I just installed Bruno's rear subframe inserts.

[Bimmer Nut Ed]

It was so easy. Took all of 10 minutes, max! I did not even lift the car, I just removed the 2 13mm bolts and the 22mm nut, inserted the insert, and re-install. Piece of cake. Now for the daughter’s car next, as soon as she get home!

I have not driven the car yet, and might not for a little while. With the weather like it is. It's Beemer Weather! Besides, the inside of my 5er is apart waiting for a sword right now! And it usually take me about a week of driving or so to detect any subtleties in handling. Anyway, maybe I'm a little skeptical, but I can't see it really changing the ride much, but I can see it preventing major movement in that bushing, therefore preventing early replacement of that bushing, and heck, maybe even preventing having to replace that rear subframe bushing at all. And that's good enough for me, I like it already. If I find any ride differences, I'll be sure to post.

[Russell]

Steering seemd quicker, wandering down a bit and cornered a bit flatter with less corrections needed during a corner. I do believe it reduced or even eliminated the need for new sub frame bushings. There may be a a tiny bit more harshness transmitted to the interior. Not sure. Overall, it is the cheapest quality upgrade I have done to my car. However, Mark's E.A.T. chip ranks way up there. FYI, I also installed Bruno's front suspension thrust arm inserts. They eliminated my 55-65 mph shimmy and made the car even more precise. Great products!

Next comes the rear suspension dog bones. I think they are "soft". It seems that as each component is replaced they suspension is much tighter.


It was so easy. Took all of 10 minutes, max! I did not even lift the car, I just removed the 2 13mm bolts and the 22mm nut, inserted the insert, and re-install. Piece of cake. Now for the daughter’s car next, as soon as she get home!

I have not driven the car yet, and might not for a little while. With the weather like it is. It's Beemer Weather! Besides, the inside of my 5er is apart waiting for a sword right now! And it usually take me about a week of driving or so to detect any subtleties in handling. Anyway, maybe I'm a little skeptical, but I can't see it really changing the ride much, but I can see it preventing major movement in that bushing, therefore preventing early replacement of that bushing, and heck, maybe even preventing having to replace that rear subframe bushing at all. And that's good enough for me, I like it already. If I find any ride differences, I'll be sure to post.

[Bimmer Nut Ed]

I can't seem to find the thrust arm inserts anywhere on the Racing King website, or the BMWE34.net site. Bruno, we want more of your stuff. Thanks Bruno.

Also, are you saying there will be inserts for the dogbone bushings as well?

[Russell]

I can't seem to find the thrust arm inserts anywhere on the Racing King website, or the BMWE34.net site. Bruno, we want more of your stuff. Thanks Bruno.

Also, are you saying there will be inserts for the dogbone bushings as well?

[PhilipJCaputo]

Thanks for the boost of confidence! I was worried that something was going to fall down on me when I put those inserts in.... but nothing! they were so easy.... I did have to buy a 22mm socket... but I'll probably use it again (dog bone boots are slightly torn)

Didn't even lift the car, just threw down a piece of cardboard in the drive way and went at it!

Haven't had a chance to test them yet, but I'll be out later this afternoon for a little drive :)

[SharkmanBMW]

Sorry for being out of the loop a little... but what part are you guys talking about??!!!
It all sounds very interesting and I think I want some!!! :p

[Bimmer Nut Ed]

I found the link now:
http://www.racingking.ca/Canada/Scripts/prodView.asp?idproduct=693

And here's a good thread that talks about them:
http://www.bimmer.info/forum/showthread.php?t=5323&page=1&pp=10&highlight=bruno+inserts


Sorry for being out of the loop a little... but what part are you guys talking about??!!!
It all sounds very interesting and I think I want some!!! :p

[George M]

Ed...a question...did you use an impact on the 95 ft-lb 22mm nut(s) when removing the sub frame bushing plates? I need to remove mine and wonder if an impact would put too much stress on the large carriage bolt(s) up through the car's floor board which is restrained I believe with a knurled interference to the floor board....don't want to spin/strip out that interface.
Or did you just use a breaker bar on those bolts?
Other opinions?
Thanks,
George

[Mr Project]

I used an impact to remove and a torque wrench to install on those bolts. Probably not the greatest idea, but I had no problems.

[Scott H]

no problems either


I used an impact to remove and a torque wrench to install on those bolts. Probably not the greatest idea, but I had no problems.

[George M]

Thanks Guys!

[Bimmer Nut Ed]

I just used a regular socket and standard ratchet (on both the 22mm and 13mm). No problem at all. Did not seem that tight and was not stuck. Very easy to do, literally, minutes.

[George M]

using a regular ratchet on a 95 ft-lb bolt....riding around only on Beemers and no time to test drive the E-34...sure the wife isn't slippin some Viagra in your corn flakes? :p
Thanks bro...think I will try a breaker bar before using an impact...leave the ratchet in the box.
I love this time of year.
George

[Jason]

Steering seemd quicker, wandering down a bit and cornered a bit flatter with less corrections needed during a corner. I do believe it reduced or even eliminated the need for new sub frame bushings. There may be a a tiny bit more harshness transmitted to the interior. Not sure. Overall, it is the cheapest quality upgrade I have done to my car. However, Mark's E.A.T. chip ranks way up there. FYI, I also installed Bruno's front suspension thrust arm inserts. They eliminated my 55-65 mph shimmy and made the car even more precise. Great products!

Next comes the rear suspension dog bones. I think they are "soft". It seems that as each component is replaced they suspension is much tighter.

[George M]

Anybody have a pic of Bruno's delrin sub frame bushing insert in its free state? His website shows what I believe to be a blue washer like part..presume that is the delrin insert...that would minimize vertical subframe motion by sandwiching between the sub frame and the plate. Question is...does this insert also have a couple of fingers that fill the air space on each side of the interior of the bushing as well which would control radial bushing flexion controlling rear suspension toe... web pic does not show the physical geometry of the insert outside the bushing. Am considering injecting this air space with a medium density urethane but perhaps Bruno's inserts fill this internal air space in addition to controlling vertical displacement.
Thanks,
George

[RobPatt]

I read that the subframe bushings are a PITA, whereas Bruno's product is a piece of cake. What's the difference? Do you still have to remove the original subframe bushing? Guess I need to get under the car and take a close look. 3 bolts and 15 minutes = sold. Please let me know. -Rob


It was so easy. Took all of 10 minutes, max! I did not even lift the car, I just removed the 2 13mm bolts and the 22mm nut, inserted the insert, and re-install. Piece of cake. Now for the daughter’s car next, as soon as she get home!

I have not driven the car yet, and might not for a little while. With the weather like it is. It's Beemer Weather! Besides, the inside of my 5er is apart waiting for a sword right now! And it usually take me about a week of driving or so to detect any subtleties in handling. Anyway, maybe I'm a little skeptical, but I can't see it really changing the ride much, but I can see it preventing major movement in that bushing, therefore preventing early replacement of that bushing, and heck, maybe even preventing having to replace that rear subframe bushing at all. And that's good enough for me, I like it already. If I find any ride differences, I'll be sure to post.

[Mr Project]

Bruno's rear bushings are just the 'doughnut' shape, no vertical 'fingers' to fill the gaps you are speaking of, George. I'm still very happy with the results.

RobPatt, it's so easy exactly because you don't need to remove the current bushings. These just take up the air gap between the current bushing and the lower bracket.

Ultimately I suppose the jury is out on whether this can really take the place of bushing replacement (I don't really think it could), but I would say that it is a compelling and effective method of extending the life of your current bushings (even if already worn) and improving the rear suspension performance/effectiveness.

[George M]

as the two center sub frame bushing spars...shown on Bruno's site under bushing R&R....that make up the interior of the sub frame bushing deteriorate, you get two principle unwanted increases in motion...one: vertical, second: radial or as used in typical car design...x and y ranges of motion that translate to radial bushing motion. With Bruno's insert design....since it is basically a donut....there is some cross linking of one and two since increasing vertical interference...lets call it Z-dir will result in a modest radial or X and Y-dir restraint...but not much....a small by-product... particularly as the delrin inserts compress over time which they will. The downside of using in effect a spacer to quiet vertical displacement is transmission of road noise or NVH which is reported to be low by those that have installed the inserts. In effect these inserts restrain the bushing vertically because both spars not only deteroriate in wrap up (lateral bending) that leads to radial displacement but in vertical bending that contributes to vertical bushing displacement.
What you really want to keep the rear of the car from steering is X and Y-directional restraint to successfully capture the rear sub frame under load/keep the attitude of the suspension from changing which will minimize toe change and hence tendency for the rear of the car to steer. Why I asked about vertical fingers filling the air space up inside the bushing. I will inject my bushings with 3M urethane for better location of the subframe. Hopefully degraded bushing spars in conjunction with a medium density urethane will strike a good balance between noise isolation and bushing strength.
George

[632 Regal]

as the two center sub frame bushing spars...shown on Bruno's site under bushing R&R....that make up the interior of the sub frame bushing deteriorate, you get two principle unwanted increases in motion...one: vertical, second: radial or as used in typical car design...x and y ranges of motion that translate to radial bushing motion. With Bruno's insert design....since it is basically a donut....there is some cross linking of one and two since increasing vertical interference...lets call it Z-dir will result in a modest radial or X and Y-dir restraint...but not much....a small by-product... particularly as the delrin inserts compress over time which they will. The downside of using in effect a spacer to quiet vertical displacement is transmission of road noise or NVH which is reported to be low by those that have installed the inserts. In effect these inserts restrain the bushing vertically because both spars not only deteroriate in wrap up (lateral bending) that leads to radial displacement but in vertical bending that contributes to vertical bushing displacement.
What you really want to keep the rear of the car from steering is X and Y-directional restraint to successfully capture the rear sub frame under load/keep the attitude of the suspension from changing which will minimize toe change and hence tendency for the rear of the car to steer. Why I asked about vertical fingers filling the air space up inside the bushing. I will inject my bushings with 3M urethane for better location of the subframe. Hopefully degraded bushing spars in conjunction with a medium density urethane will strike a good balance between noise isolation and bushing strength.
George

[Jean@MtMiguel]

SUBFRAME Bushings are 3xPITA
I started working on it for replacement and a whole much later, I'm still on part one, I did a cavalry retreat put it back together and to be done next time, I don't back off on work like this but it's 3X PITA, I will replace the rear struts 3X than work on this subs bushing, but will do a Custer charge one of this days for that subframe bushing.CHAAARGE Bimmer lovers......

[Jon K]

SUBFRAME Bushings are 3xPITA
I started working on it for replacement and a whole much later, I'm still on part one, I did a cavalry retreat put it back together and to be done next time, I don't back off on work like this but it's 3X PITA, I will replace the rear struts 3X than work on this subs bushing, but will do a Custer charge one of this days for that subframe bushing.CHAAARGE Bimmer lovers......

no offense but i just read this post and the other one you made in the "will my car pass emissions" post and i have no idea wtf you are saying

[632 Regal]

he was 3Xing the PITA glass pipe broke and couldnt finish something.

[Jean@MtMiguel]

It is not H U H.. i understand his linggo, in short just to have the PITA subframe bushings part #33 32 9 061 946 replaced and tightness in the rear suspension be back to like new car condition.

[Jean@MtMiguel]

No offense made, the WTF subframe bushings are real pain the a.., to remove, try doing it without getting grease in your fingernails or in your forehead and still you would not get it, I don't trust my car to mere stdealer mechanics and I rather do the grease in the fingernail routine,by the way surgical gloves also help in not getting any grease in the fingernails.